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Islam and Anarchism

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Xiv666, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Xiv666

    Xiv666Active Member Forum Member


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    In the last few years, there has been talk knocking about on the idea of Islamic Anarchism, primarily from the US-based punk Muslim Michael Knight [1]. But there has been sparce evidence of any coherent online presence of Muslim Anarchists, until June 20th, 2005, when Yakoub Islam, a British-based Muslim, published his online Muslim Anarchist Charter [2].

    The charter asserted a set of basic principles for Anarchist thought and action founded on a Muslim perspective. These reaffirm some of the core principles of Islam, including a belief in God, the Prophecy of Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the human soul, but assert the possibility that a Muslim's spiritual path might be achieved by refusing to compromise with institutional power in any form, be it judicial, religious, social, corporate or political. Muslims are thus challenged to establish a society where spiritual growth is "uninhibited by tyranny, poverty and ignorance". It is in the fervent assertion of the principle of no compromise, driven by a utopian vision of humanity living in peace and co-operation, that the faith of Islam and the politics of Anarchism are said to meet.

    Yakoub, formerly Julian Anderson, originally discovered Anarchism in the 1980s through the works of the punk band CRASS, but distanced himself from the anti-religious, drug-enfeebled British punk Muslim scene in the late 1980s to explore academic learning, eventually converting to Islam in 1991. A lack of commitment and understanding saw him retreat from religious practice during 1990s, returning to Islam only at the turn of the Millenium when he began working with Muslim children in inner city schools. Over the last 18 months, Yakoub has become an increasingly visible cyber activist at the same time as caring for his 12 year old son, who is profoundly autistic.

    Almost from the beginning of his journey into the Muslim faith, Yakoub was disturbed by a patriarchal authoritarianism dogging much Islamic thought and practice. After discovering the writings of the radical progressive Muslim Farid Esack, Yakoub initiated an online project based on Carolyn Ellis'sconcept of autoethnography called TGP. Initially, Yakoub took solace in and published on the Progressive Muslim discourse of Muslim Wake Up, including an article based on interviews and research on Britiain's LGBT Muslims. Yet Yakoub experienced a growing satisfaction with Muslim Wake Up's allegiance to the more mainstream Progressive Muslim Union of North America, and consequently sought to develop a more politically radical perspective, more forthright in challenging the Pax Americana and equally less derogatory of the wider Muslim traditions.

    Yakoub is cautious in describing himself as a Muslim Anarchist (or an Anarchist Muslim), rather than talking about Islamic Anarchism, because the evidence from social research points to a considerable diversity within the Muslim community or ummah, with some anthropologists reluctant to talk about a single 'Islam'. Neither is there, of course, a single 'Anarchism', and the publication of the Muslim Anarchist charter marks the beginning of an intellectual and political discussion, rather than the creation of a new political or religious ideology.

    i got this from anarchopedia.org
    i just wanna say that im sick of the government and the people.
    they blame islam for the terrorist attack and shit.
    like i said,if you wanna hate something.you have to know it first.
    im all ears..
     

  2. Harrison

    HarrisonExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 11, 2009
     
    This is interesting, I haven't heard much about Islamic anarchism before. I reckon there's not that much stuff on it, or at least not that I've read. Not to say I'm surprised it exists, however, Islam can be found everywhere in the world, I wouldn't be surprised if there is in fact a large community of Islamic anarchists that we (I) just haven't heard of yet.
    I mean Spain features large amounts of/notable histories of both ideologies. Island South-east Asia is quite the same.
    Though I wonder how prevalent anarchist ideals are in the middle east itself.
    Speaking on this though, there is Deathless Anguish, an all-womyn political death metal band from Saudi Arabia. Not necessarily directly related but it just reminded me of this (http://r-a-b-m.blogspot.com/2010/09/ori ... metal.html).
    I look forward to seeing where this thread (and possibly new take on anarchism to speak broadly and externally) goes.
     
  3. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Islamic anarchsim is a contradiction. Islam means obeying god, Anarchsim in general is no gods no masters.
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Islamic anarchism is a fucking joke, just like christian anarchism. We had an islamist anarchist on this forum last year, look for her post it's really fucking hilarious.
     
  5. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    and once more:
    anarchism includes atheism - so any kind of "religious" anarchism is just impossible, it's no dogmatic point of view, but the nature of the anarchist philosophy.

    and there is more than "one" islam, just like there is more than one christian faith, more than one of any other sedative... i don't know enough about the islamic believes in detail, it's hard to find neutral literature around here and i stopped looking for it after a muslim told me that there is no "monolithic bloc" - and by the way, this guy is kind of a friend and calls us "non-believers" when we talk serious about religion and politics.
    but i never heard of any anarchist groups in the "islamic" world before.

    and even if we fight the us-led western war propaganda and feel with the victims of the war in the near east, and i hope we all do, i think we should be very carefully about underestimating the enemies of our enemy - they might not be our "friends".
     
  6. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    anarchism is based on rational/modernist premises, nowadays we've incorporated a bitz of post-modernism (foucault or negri anyone). Therefore, it follows that anarchism is, at the least, secular, at best, atheist.
    I have no time for religion personally, but i'm not overly concerned about folks that do. Just don't masquerade as 'religious anarchism', the two are not compatible.
     
  7. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    quoting my favorite butcher may become a habit - so i will only agree with your more accurate statement about the basics of anarchism.

    but i already had to be concerned about confessing muslims banging at our door after they had their kor'han-inspired way to deal with "sluts" of wifes and daughters, who were sitting bruised and crying in our kitchen, begging for shelter.
    gives you a taste of dschihad, even if you know that mohammad wrote about strictly defensive wars.

    not to mention our favourite grandmothers still fighting for the catholic baptisim or introduction of our kids into the jewish community, family crisis ending up with "who killed jesus/who did the holocaust" inclusive.

    to choose wearing a t-shirt that leaves a bit breast and the arms uncovered, or to go out without a scarf to cover the hair, or to choose a religion if you are old enough to choose for yourself is a postmodern standard and act of self-determination - but not for these people.
     
  8. hanarcho

    hanarchoActive Member Forum Member


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    Sep 24, 2009
     
    I was brought up muslim and raised as a muslim...but i'm not sure if I can call myself a muslim now...
     
  9. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    quoting my favorite Lil is always a pleasure - but what about the kids current worshipping of the collectives cat?
    Postmodern paganism arising?
     
  10. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    nah, favorite inquisitor, THEY just d o n' t f o r g e t to feed this feline paragon of grace, independence and self-determination.
     
  11. Milan

    MilanExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Mar 13, 2010
     
    (Silly comment, sorry but I have to...)
    Lol, so Michael Knight is an Anarchist AND a muslim? I wonder what Kitt has to say about that...

    (and now a serious comment)

    A good friend of mine is a really kind and social guy, yet he is one hell of a Christian. he isn't really conservative, yet he really believes everything he reads in the Bible.
    we had MANY discussions, for I simply have problems with his entire religion.
    This guy explained me what he really believes in and what kind of society he sees as his utopia. the scary thing is that his ideal society wasn't much different than mine, for he believes his "god" wants people to live next to eachother in absolute peace and therefore almost-like Anarchy. I am not defending any religions, yet I think there can be a lot of good intentions involved in their ideology, perhaps quite some similarities to ours as well.
     
  12. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    a bit off-topic to talk about christians, so i have to say that i know some kind and social muslims too, people with enough sense and understanding/tolerance that allows me to cooperate with them besides having very different points of view.
    after some more discussions about islam and quran i learned a bit more and i guess the islamic utopia would be acceptable for christians too, and the quran seems to be more aware of peoples real needs than the bible.
    but:
    „Deus lo vult" was the battlecry during the historical christian crusades - the muslims answered "Allahu akbar"
    both slogans mean "god wants it".
    bellum iustum is the latin christian term for "just war" - dschihad is the arabic term for "just war".

    yes, you can find inspiration to do the right thing in the bible, the quran and the thora.
    but you can also justify every imaginable crime, atrocity and repression with these books too.
    and for each idealist that looks for inspiration or advice, there is a pope, priest, mullah, rabbi, preacher to tell him what "god wants". in that, each more or less organized religion is very similiar to others of its kind - but the outcome?
     
  13. Milan

    MilanExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Mar 13, 2010
     
    I don't know any dedicated muslims, which is why I used an example of a different religion, but I wanted to make my point about people somehow using stuff from their holy book as a motivation for doing good things, being nice to other people, and in my example even for being tolerant to muslims and any other religion (which is quite rare for a dedicated christian)

    I, as well as anyone else around here, knows about the bad shit in there, the way they justify crimes against mankind by their holy book, I think it's nothing but ancient imperialism and oppression, but I mean to say that some people manage to use some bad stuff in a good way :)
     
  14. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    milan, i made the remark about off-topics only to keep the discussion on-topic because i needed to mix my point on muslim propaganda with christian propaganda too. there is a topic about christian punks on the forum, the discussion there is very similiar to this one and i guess i will go off-topic again when i say:

    besides that there is no god who created this world and judges good and evil, my personal motive to reject religion is the fact, that each of the monotheistic religions is usable to keep people submissive and sedated, manipulable and controllable - up to the point where idealism is used to commit crimes against humanity.
    some sociologists and scholars of comparative religion claim, that the development of the monotheistic religions was precursory to repressive legislation at a time, when the leaders of communities hadn't the power to enforce laws directly upon their subordinates. instead of this, they promoted gods fury coming over everyone breaking the "god given" laws - and i think there is no question about "who" made those "god given laws".

    examples like your christian and my muslim friend are a reason for keeping tolerance and discuss the matter further - but as an anarchist i could not accept that both of them still draw their motives from obviously questionable traditions/religions, instead of using their intelligence to think for themselves, act without the need to justify their actions "because god wants it".
    i don't believe that it's possible to use bad stuff to do good and for me the monotheistic religions or authoritarian socialism/communism proved this in history and still today.
     
  15. Xiv666

    Xiv666Active Member Forum Member


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    if u read the qoran properly.there is a similarity to it.i dont wanna talk much coz my english is bad.
    check this out and tell me what you see.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AY7-xrDyAw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaX-fZ5hx3Y

    seeing is not always believing.
     
  16. Xiv666

    Xiv666Active Member Forum Member


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    Sep 7, 2009
     

    yeah,where the same..
    check out the video link i posted to ungovernable.
     
  17. Xiv666

    Xiv666Active Member Forum Member


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    yeah.its just have a similarity to it.
    if you wanna know you have to discover it yourself.dont trust people.
    just trust real punx.haha!
    great band 2.
    thanx 4 the reply.
     
  18. Xiv666

    Xiv666Active Member Forum Member


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    Sep 7, 2009
     
    yeah its a contradiction but not all.
    check out my latest post.
     
  19. Xiv666

    Xiv666Active Member Forum Member


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    yeah there is more than one.
    but only the one is the real one.just like punx..
    there is poser punx and the real punx.
    and the real punx is anarcho-punk for me.
    and whats monolithic bloc?
    my english is bad coz i live in a different country but the same fucking government.
    the muslims fight the same war as the anarchist.there is no war but war against the government.
    yes we should carefully underestimate everything.
    check out my latest post and the video link 2.
     
  20. Xiv666

    Xiv666Active Member Forum Member


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    but we have time for discovering.
    check out my new post for answers.
     
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