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Is the US a capitalist system?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by bgrass, May 18, 2010.

  1. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Apr 11, 2010
     
    Just saw a post in another thread saying the US was a capitalist system. I really don't think so. If the state owns all property, resources, land and persons within its borders, how can there be capitalism since the means of production is not privately owned?
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    what you describe is definatly not the current system... the state doesn't own all proprety, ressources, land and persons...

    Anyway, a lot of peoples argue to say that US is mixed economy.

    But i think it is still the biggest capitalist country in the world and the best representative of it..
     
  3. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     

    Ditto, I don't understand where the people are coming from in order to say that. The only state-ran institutions are things like firefighters, and cops, which really has no re sale value. In means of productions, America completely is the biggest capitalist country, everything is privatized, and we (When I say we, I'm speaking solely for the people that run the country) don't mind representing it by shoving it down other countries throats.
     
  4. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 19, 2010
     
    It's the most sacred to most americans - the right to own property. OWN - meaning the state doesn't own shit. Hell, you can even shoot people if they step onto your ground, and for the most part get away with it.

    The American system is definitely capitalist, and Bush has even stated that it's the best system in the world. There are multiple speeches and quotes of him, his father, reagan and other like minded, stating that capitalism is the free mans choice and the best system ever.

    Obama is also a capitalist - and his campaigns are sponsored by private companies.

    The US is capitalist, definitely - and so are most other countries today more or less unfortunately
     
  5. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    YES
     
  6. ghoul

    ghoulExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 16, 2010
     
    We are like most Western Democracies in that we are a hybrid. We have programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and so on, all of which are socialist by their very definition. Neither systems are inherently evil, they are abstracts, they lack the ability to be anything other than thoughts and ideas. It is the people behind them that CAN be evil. They can also do good. Such is the state of the human condition.
     
  7. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Apr 11, 2010
     
    There is no ownership of land, as the state controls what can be done on the land, what can be built on the land and can revoke at will any privileges that were exclusively provided by the state (fee simple interest in most state) through eminent domain.

    There is no ownership of personal property as it is all controlled and therefore owned by the state. If your combination of materials that fits certain standards, they become prohibited and/or controlled. Non harmful uses of all kinds of personal property is prohibited and controlled by the state, the creation of all kinds of personal property is prohibited, and any exchange or trade is state controlled.

    There is no self ownership. So many personal actions that are non harmful are restricted, prohibited and controlled, self ownership has been nullified as the state has taken that ownership through control.

    Since all is done by violence, and all seen as legitimate by the state, the state owns all persons, land and property while only allowing certain privileges, which can be revoked at the will of the state. When action is compelled through violence, an assumption of ownership has been made. When peaceful action and defensive force is limited, prohibited or controlled through violence, an assumption of ownership has been made. Since the state does the above in most its actions and laws. The US government has effectively assumed ownership over everyone and everything in within its borders.

    The point is that its the state that is the aggressor and that is the enemy, not a non existent capitalist system. Aggression is the evil, the state legitimizes it. People know aggression is wrong, they don't know most all that is done by their government is an act of aggression and they don't know that their vote for the states aggression was an act of aggression on their own part. Demonizing capitalism takes the focus off the true evil in the states action, and keeps the unknown evil committed by their votes unknown. Focus needs to be on the aggressions of the state and how people facilitate those acts of aggressive violence through their votes.
     
  8. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Mar 12, 2010
     
    its all about free enterprise. and how the rich get richer while the middle class is leeched pretty much and become lower class. then the upper class rich bys just sit back as they take things needed to live and put a big price tag on it and force us to bbye bye bye while making the minimil income possible.
     
  9. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    let's put it this way, if you are fortunate enough to have One Million Dollars in a bank account, you will make approximately $70,000 in interest a year. You would never have to work again (assuming you aren't a big spender.) Is that fair to the rest of the world? Does that not sound like a folly of a capitalist system?
     
  10. AtomicKhaos

    AtomicKhaosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 16, 2009
     
    Not to mention the "recycling" of money they create, making it look like they are making money.

    i think the biggest corporation you should look at the runs the "American" country is Monsantos aka Round Up.

    They genetically alter seeds, sell them to farmers for mass production, and sell it in your supermarkets.

    Now i know american people did NOT vote for this!

    Why would people not want to know what is in their food?

    Sounds like- PEOPLE! SOILENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!
     
  11. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I don't think the U.S. should be called anything BUT capitalist
    Look at all the useless shit. We got malls to maximize profit
    industrialized food which is awful to eat but addicting and fast selling
    exploiting other countries maximizes profit as well
    There's a huge debt that will never be paid,
    the U.S. economy is a leech on this earth.
     
  12. ghoul

    ghoulExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 16, 2010
     
    All food is genetically altered. Take the potato for example, it used to be poisonous. But thanks to genetic alteration (selective breeding) it is now not only edible but damn tasty as well. One of my personal favorite humans of all time is Norman Borlaug. I doubt you've heard of him. He did some amazing work with agricultural science and personally saved BILLIONS of people. Look him up. The guy is beyond awesome.

    You can't build a peaceful world on empty stomachs and human misery. - Norman Borlaug.
     
  13. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    I see this place as a fascist capitalist country, capitalism and fascism run hand in hand to me..
     
  14. pezPwnage

    pezPwnageActive Member Forum Member


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    I agree but i think its more alongst the lines of a modern imperialistic fascist capitalist country because its destroying the world with its 'influence' on almost everything.
     
  15. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Apr 11, 2010
     
    I'm confused, I thought capitalism was individual ownership of the means of production. Guess I was wrong. When state applies aggressive violence to benefit some at the expense of others, that's capitalism. I got it now. But we still don't blame the state, but just those that got the benefit. So we need to make sure we give the violent aggressors a pass, but demonize only those that benefit from the states actions. This sounds a lot like what conservatives do. They demonize the welfare mother and the illegal immigrant because the benefit from the states aggression against them, but they miss the real enemy, which is the state and its aggressive violence, not the person who happens to benefit.
     
  16. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    To answer the original question: yes.
    To continue in the vein of the topic and the twist it took, I have very little else to add. Other than the fact that the people owning the means of production are the bosses, who are protected by the state on virtually ALL levels.
     
  17. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Mar 12, 2010
     
    watch the michle morre documentary maybe it will learn you a thing or two
     
  18. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    Was this directed at original poster or at me?
     
  19. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Apr 11, 2010
     
    Are my posts even being read, or are you all just making assumptions based upon the thread title? Because I see no arguments against my position that all property and persons are owned by the state in the US.
     
  20. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Mar 12, 2010
     
    it was at bgrass.

    but not all property is owned by the us? thats not really what capitalism is really about? like i said up top. its all about free enterprise and the ability of opening up your own company and you can do really crazy good or die. and how all the companys that have become really big make it very hard even imposible in some cases for the new or smaller companys to make as much money as the big time guys. the goverment does not own private enterprise. its actuly some whatthe other way around in some cases


    the goverment does not own people... but they sure get close once a person starts getting into debt from loans and what not
     
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