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Is punk more a subculture or social movement?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by ryan1980, Aug 6, 2010.

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  1. KAAOS-82

    KAAOS-82Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    gah its no use. can't get through to a keyboard warrior like you
     
  2. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE.....


    Sits on sideline and eats popcorn....
     
  3. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    WHERE'S MY FUCKING RECORD COLLECTION??
     
  4. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    I doubt Malatesta had much to say about Primitivism, being a fairly new phenomenon and all.
    Besides, I stand by my right to talk shit on Primitivists and Individualists, cos they, like, suck a bit.

    Anywayz, its probs worth keeping in mind that when/where anarchism has/is a social movement (as opposed to theory/philosophy) it has been either anarcho-syndicalist or anarcho-communist in character.
     
  5. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    in the mail
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    wow what a good comeback !!! you're pathetic, you don't know what yo say again...

    yeah right, because i argue over the internet i'm a keyboard warrior !! i usually hear this comeback from nazis who see "internet warriors" everywhere

    dude you ar ein fucking australia, how the fuck can i talk to you beside internet ?

    Same here, i am against primitivism and individualism but that's not a reason to be a platformist and want to destroy a school of thoughts of anarchism.... In quebec, some crazy platformists from Hors d'Oeuvre used to distribute flyer encouraging to go at war against primitivist and individualist, they were highly critized by other anarchists for doing that...

    Yes but once again, i don't see the point of fighting against primitivists and individualists, they are allies, they can do the revolution with us and in an anarchist society if they want to live like primitivists or individualists they can just make their own community, it's not incompatible with the anarchist society like anarcho-capitalism or marxism is...
     
  7. antitude420

    antitude420Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You know what this forum is missing? An eye-rolling smiley...Now that would save us a lot of time.
     
  8. New Face In Hell

    New Face In HellExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Indeed it would. We need to start a petition. lol
     
  9. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Butcher:
    It sure does!

    Ungovernable:
    Hmm... Would anarcho-individualism be compatible with anarcho-communism or anarcho-syndicalism? I mean, wouldn't anarcho-individualist's be able to deny the rules of other communities? Since some schools of anarcho-individualism denies all forms of morality that is put upon you or external governance of any kind, they wouldn't have a problem exploiting other communities, there by breaking peace.
    Thereby some would have more power suddenly, destroying the whole concept of equality in anarchism - back to capitalism or feudalism.
    Also, many schools of anarcho-individualism oppose revolutions - making them maybe less of good allies, though they of course have understood the idea of libertarianism.

    It's not that i'm all for fighting anarcho-individualism, I'm not schooled enough in anarchism to claim anything, but i was wondering.
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Yeah you're right, this can be a problem eventually... basically individualism is incompatible with collectivism and anarcho-communism... if they make their own community i see no problem with it, but individualist inside anarcho-communist communities can be trouble makers and they'd have to comply with the decisions of the majority, they'd call it tyranny of the majority but who cares...
     
  11. antitude420

    antitude420Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    @New Face In Hell
    Dude, I'm serious! Serious cat, serious!

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well yes, but if they start their own community, it's important that it's their own morality and ideals that keeps them in that community - because that's the only governing they will accept, their own morale.
    But well yeah, i don't know. I still don't think there's a reason to fight individualist's at this point, as they at least doesn't resist libertarianism unlike most other ideologies.
     
  13. New Face In Hell

    New Face In HellExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Skeptical cat is fraught with skepticism. :lmao:

    Nah, man, I believe you.
     
  14. HCdancingsux

    HCdancingsuxActive Member Forum Member


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    To everyone: I am sorry for starting a 'flame war' I was just trying to point out that ungovernable is unfair in his 'debates'. He calls this a debate forum, but aside from this argument I can tell that he gets butt hurt if someone makes a 'debate' against him.

    Ungov: Go read my words through again and again. You might discover something missing from your interpretation. You may be able to interpret my writings however you want but I insist that you are generalizing everything I say for the sake of the argument. So just to make myself clear... I think that SOME anarchist literature is mostly propaganda and doesn't offer real solutions. Also, I feel that JUST BECAUSE there's a philosopher who can back you up, doesn't mean you're totally right. Also, there's so many 'schools' of anarchy that it can get complicated. Meaning that even if I knew all the damn schools, they would all contradict each other in some way, that doesn't mean I don't seek to understand it. I can believe whatever I want without attaching it to any 'ism' because even within the confines of anarchism, people will have a hard time compromising. People are NOT ism's. Then, WHEN I QUOTE A PHILOSOPHER you should know, that if I agree with an idea that I found, written by ANYONE I consider them to be a philosopher. I don't need to know their whole life history and have read all the books they published to agree with one of their ideas. I think this is fine because anarcho-individualism is what it all boils down too. Everyone is an individual, and everyone in an anarchist society should matter.

    For now, I dub this fight to be over. I am sick of coming onto this website and reading the next lengthy post where you attempt to degrade me and smoosh my courage.

    KAAOS-82: DON'T Fight with Ungov, because he doesn't fight fair. You will be pulling your hair out and screaming "TYRANNY!!" at the top of your lungs. He's not a keyboard warrior, he's a keyboard manipulator. Also, Proudhon's federalist butthole would be a good name for a band, just make sure that its an ANARCHO-PUNK band! :thumbsup:
     
  15. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Homophobia again. You're an homophobic bastard.

    Yes this is a debate forum, this is why i have the right to debate against johnny rotten. But calling me a dictator because you disagree with me isn't a debate.

    Not what you said, liar. You're the one who should re-read yourself. You said that MANY sounds like propaganda.

    what you don't understand is that ALL anarchist texts are propaganda, it's not an objective criticism it is ANARCHIST PROPAGANDA and there's nothing wrong with it. Also you are really dumb to think they don't offer real solution, this is exactly why i tell you to read. All the solutions offered by anarchism are based on those texts. They're the ones who started the different anarchist schools of thoughts...

    It means that i'm not contradictory with anarchism.

    But oh yeah, you never read anything and you're an ignorant but you can tell who is right and who's not, and you can also tell that the philosophers are wrong.

    No. Unless you are a lazy fuck. Takes only one day to understand what's the difference between those schools.

    Once again you don't know what you are talking about... Most of the schools doesn't contradict each others, and anyway the principle of anarchism is to offer more than one solution depending on the circumstances, it is imporant to know all of these schools. Stop trying to find yourself excuse to be a lazy who refuse to educate himself.

    Ok, but you are not an anarchist.

    How the fuck can you pretend to fight for something that you don't even understand.

    Cry me a river.

    You're the one who started this fight.

    Hahahahahaha now i am a tyran and you're the martyr. What a fucking joke. All this because i gave my opinion on johnny rotten. You're a clown.

    I don't fight fair ? Yet you're the one who resort to cheap insults like calling me a dictator....
     
  16. antitude420

    antitude420Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    For both of you, for fuck's sake, STOP giving a damn about what some guy says about you on the damn internet! Why the fuck do you care so much?
    Are you so insecure that those "insults" affect you? Don't you know yourself better than the other guy on the other side of the world? Geez!

    Ungov, let him have his opinion, why should you care? He isn't hurting anyone and he probably helps in the fight so let him be! He doesn't have to agree with everything a damn philosopher says to be an anarchist, isn't anarchism about questioning? Then let him question his ass off and instead of just telling him to read and pretend you don't have time to explain it (in a civilized way), explain it! You don't need regurgitate an entire book, just give him some basics if you care so much, man.

    And HCdancingsux, just give Ungov a chance to explain something to you, you know he urges it, just ask him...
     
  17. HCdancingsux

    HCdancingsuxActive Member Forum Member


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    Antitude, I have given him multiple chances to be nice to me. He just doesn't like me so he automatically takes everything I say the exact opposite of the way it was meant to be taken. He just translates everything I say to something that would work in his favor. He just assumes everything I'm saying is an attack on anarchist philosophers, learning, and homos. Even though I keep insisting that wasn't what I was trying to accomplish with my arguments.

    All I wanted was a little fairness and decency. That's why I went off on him about criticizing that kid with the Johnny Rotten icon. It's indecent to bring someone's music taste into an argument about beliefs. People don't have to completely agree with or believe every artist they listen to. Also, he's not just some guy on the internet, he's a moderator who abuses his position. What does that remind you of? A TYRANNICAL DICTATOR?

    I don't fucking know. All I really know is, I'm staying, and I'm going to continue making connections with the people I like. I joined so I could learn about anarchy. I would even read something ungov recommended, but would I believe a single thing he says? NO. Because I've witnessed how he handles his so-called 'debates'. He just insists that the other person is suggesting something they arn't. Guess I will just have to ignore him.
     
  18. KAAOS-82

    KAAOS-82Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    You saying women don't have assholes? MALE CHAUVINIST !!!! ARRGGGHHHHH!!!
    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
     
  19. antitude420

    antitude420Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    See? That last sentence you wrote? Fulfill it, dude.

    I mean, Ungov is dedicated to what he believes in and I respect that. I also know how he handles debates so I just stay out of it. Despite that he knows what he's talking about and if he's in the mood, he can suggest you some nice books and sites or whatever.

    Oh and btw, it's the Internet, don't expect much decency here :lmao: I know that's stupid but it's the truth, I recon that if you debate him (or anyone) face to face, it'd be pretty different...

    EDIT : LOL at KAAOS. I didn't understood where Ungov was trying to get in that sentence too :lmao:
     
  20. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    one more off topic comment and the topic will be closed....Again the topic is:

    Is punk more a subculture or social movement?
     
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