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intellectual property

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by OB Soul, May 25, 2010.

  1. OB Soul

    OB SoulActive Member Forum Member


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    May 23, 2010
     
    So I've been browsing around these forums and i really like whats going down here a lot, save a few petty arguments here and there, but hey whats life without them. I'm trying to be freelance-illustrator-artist thing so i pretty much am my own boss making commission from whoever i choose to work for. By my standards, this means no big corporations or shitty pop band or rascist fuck yadayadyayada...they can hire someone else.

    So from commenting on posts on this site my stencil work has come up a few times and i realized that stencils were something i strongly wish to be free to anyone for personal use, so i had the idea to do a seperate blog from my main art blog where i post my stencil designs and let anyone download them to use on things like t-shirts, patches, boring concrete walls, ect. However I want my designs to be strictly not for profit, since stencil and street art in general IMO is one of the last bastions of real "art for everyone". I don't really even care so much about someone profiting off it as the idea of someone else having to pay for something i wanted to be free for anyone and everyone. i find the idea pretty disgusting honestly.

    this brings up the point of intellectual property. because on the one hand, i DON'T want someone restricting what i meant to be for anyone, but the alternative is to potentially seek to enforce copyright law and thus involve the (US) justice system, a convoluted and corrupt cesspool of contradictions, hypocrisy ect ect ect. I believe in using the tools the system has available to help achieve my goals so long as it doesn't compromise what i believe in, and i think that while some people can pull a Kaczynski and be completely detached from the system that you are no less an anarchist if you adhere to it's main principals but don't go to the extremes, just doing the best you can. whether using the courts and criminal charges to defend the idea behind my art compromises my anti-state sentiments or not, i don't know.

    In summary, I'm honestly unsure where i stand on this, therefore i ask the members of this forum what their opinion on intellectual property is. I'm not looking for you to instantly answer this for me, as i will read over any responses and use the insight gained to form my own opinion.

    I'm not trying to promote my art or even say it's worth putting on a shirt and selling for a few bucks. and i know property of any sort is at the very least a touchy subject for anarchists, so up front i don't mean pointing at a tree and saying its your property because you looked at it. I'm talking strictly something that you, and maybe a few others thought of and created. art, music, poetry, cupcake recipe. that sort of thing. I also kindly request that any potential critiques of my choice in occupation or legitimacy as an anarchist or a punk or whatever be done somewhere else. PM me, hell make a thread about it, i certainly welcome it, just not here if you would. finally, if this has already been discussed i apologize ahead of time.

    (thanks for reading that small novel or a first post)
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    In the USA all arts are automatically subject to copyright protection so you don't have to worry about someone claiming the copyright of one of your arts.

    Also look for creative common license

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons
     
  3. OB Soul

    OB SoulActive Member Forum Member


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    May 23, 2010
     
    I do know of this, I guess I'm specifically wondering opinions on actually pursuing criminal charges or not. i.e. some kids sell patches with one of my designs on it. while i want by all means to prevent them from ignoring the idea and "rules" behind using my work, is it fair for me to use an instrument of the very establishment my art is trying to help bring down to impose my personal ideas on what art should and should not be for?
     
  4. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    This is a very interesting subject to me, i'm also an artist working with stencils among other things and i too want to make art available to anyone. I'm still in artschool for a few more days and we're having an exhibition with the class at a gallery in town. Whilst most of the others are mostly talking about selling their art or going to other more fancy artschools and making a big career with a nice income of their art i don't really like the idea of that. Sure, if someone wants to pay me to do something that can be awesome but i wonldn't ever either do a job for anyone/-thing i can't stand for.
    At this current exhibition most of the class show things they hope to sell, they are very careful with it and don't want anyone to come near (the way it often is) and their work can only be seen when the gallery is open.
    Before the exhibition i was thinking a lot about what i wanted to show and i have done some showable stuff like drawings and stencils etc but i felt the drawings doesn't belong in a gallery like that, not the ones i like the most (the ones from Rally that some of you have seen, for others it's around here somewhere) and the stencil work in a gallery instead of on a wall can be cool but it's been done a lot and is already accepted in gallerys but when some gallery visitor then leaves and sees something on a wall they still don't see that as art. Besides i find that most of the people that's interested in streetart stuff is rarely very comfortable in a white cube gallery. What i winded up with is that i did the oposite of showing streetart in a gallery; i took a big canvas (3,5-4 meters) and put it up outside the gallery between two trees. This way it's there all hours and visible to anyone walking by. It's empty, so if someone would want they could easily paint something on it (i'm horribly tempted to but that's not what this piece is about so i can't) but still after four days it hasn't been touched. I find that very interesting and am very curious to what will happen to it.
    To make the work more complete i inside the gallery, in a window from where you can see the canvas, put a stack of white stickers. No notes on taking one or not but hopefully some people will dare to take one and place it somewhere. I was also supposed to write a text about my work to publish along with everyone else in a folder and after a lot of thinking i found that i have to leave it blank.
    So i have all these thoughts but i doubt a lot of people will understand it and most probably won't even understand that it's part of the exhibition. This might seem strange, to have a message but to not tell about it, but i've been thinking about it a lot and in a real streetart situation there is never a note telling you what it means.
    So it's very contemporary and conceptual wich of cause brings me a bit back into the 'real' artworld but i want to open up the artworld and share it with everyone. This way of working will probably never gain me a lot of cash but i've commen to find that i will rather wait tables or something to get some needed money (or rather squat and dumpsterdive, that'd be the best of cause) then to compromise on my art. I know not everyone likes my art but not everyone have to, i will still try to make it available for those who want to take part of it.
    And if anyone wants to take part of it i can push for you to buy an anarcho-punk t-shirt! No money for me but for AP :D
    Sorry about the long post, can't keep it any shorter then this since it's something i'm currently thinking about all the time, trying to find my place in the world of art. Maybe i can sum it up in that i don't like it when someone has used my tag but they can go ahead and write their own tags on my canvas that i provide for all and if i put something out there anyone can take part of it for free. If anyone would want to use my stencils it could be cool depending on wich ones i think, some i would be not so comfortable with others using but the very same ones i have painted on paper and given away to others to put up where they want, if they want so i don't keep it to myself. Ask me and you will get a few but don't make lousy copys. Hope this answers your questions a bit about my thoughts on the subject, curious to hear from others too.
     
  5. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    "Yes this painting is valued at 22 million euros"
    "What exactly is it?" asks the potential customer staring at a very very large blank canvas
    "Well this is my interpretation of a huge pile of hay that has been sowed and reaped by a peasants anarchist collective with the sweat of their brows and the strength of their hearts" says the artist in his most passionate speel
    "Well I don't see anything....." the patron states bewildered
    "Thats because a Burgouisie herd of cattle has devoured it unto themselves!!" he cries with indignation
    "Sold......" whispers the patron, still staring at the blank canvas
     
  6. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    Haha yeah well if i get more questions about my blank canvas then i want to answer i can always tell them that's what it is XD
     
  7. OB Soul

    OB SoulActive Member Forum Member


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    May 23, 2010
     
    Anom: I went to an art school too. got kicked out for bad grades 3 1/2 years in (too punk i guess :lmao: ). what school do you go to may i ask?

    I like the idea with the canvas in the tree a lot. i love when art messes with people's perception, specially the stupid fucking yuppies that go to gallery shows so they can look cultured. and yeah, most people don't end up getting it. one or two might, and then a few might be so confused they go home and think about it for hours. thats my favorite :D

    and trust me, i'd buy T-shirt if i wasn't fucking broke. i can't even afford cigarettes. :'(
     
  8. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    good then use it as a stepping stone towards quitting.
     
  9. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It's a folkhögskola, a sort of public school without any grades, not very fancy but more for preparing for higher art educations. Can't be kicked out for bad grades when there are none :D Could get kicked out for not being there enough but for that it takes a lot, or for druguse at school (but what they don't see is obviously not a problem). Got a warning that they might kick me out and file a police report cos i got fucking mad at some students trying to be so highclass cultural and dissed me so bad, screamed a bit and threw a cup but i guess that wasn't really punk enough, only almost :p

    Glad you like it! It has messed with people's perception and i hope there are people having gotten something to wonder about. I'm taking pictures almost every day so when the project is done i'll put some up here to show what happened.

    I know the feeling of being fucking broke, good for me i don't smoke! ;)
     
  10. OB Soul

    OB SoulActive Member Forum Member


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    May 23, 2010
     
    Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

    @Anom

    my first year at my school i bought pot for the first time and my roommate ratted me out to the student staff the same night, which needless to say really sucked. Fortunately the school handled it and not the cops, So i got off with little punishment. but its been like 4 years and my bastard roommate still hasn't admitted it was him! The funny part was he didn't even have a problem with drugs, he was just mad I painted over this really shitty beach scene he had spray painted on the wall without asking. :lmao:

    I guess then sweden is like germany with free universities. I'm sure you know how obscenely exspensive school is over here....but for all its downfalls, it was well worth it IMO.

    and i would love to see the pictures! btw I decided to go with Ungov's CC suggestion, so the stencil blog is http://stencilsouls.blogspot.com/. I'm almost done the bull fight piece, so that'll be up soon too :D

    EDIT: Finished the bullfight piece.
     
  11. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    Wow that sucks! At least we don't have any campus to live on so i don't have room mates to rat me out. I've heard people say i've changed a lot this year from the first (it's two years) but i think the difference lies in that i the first year was completely stoned every day...
    Yeah we have free universitys but i have to take students loans to pay my rent and food and stuff so it's still a bit costfull to study when not having money, but it's ok. If i would have to pay to study too, that'd be impossible.
    Really nice stencil drawings! Have you cutten them out and sprayed them?
    There's a couple of pictures of mine in the creative section, the one i like best isn't there anymore tho since it apparently was censured from photobucket.
     
  12. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Uhm getting back to intellectual property and the free spreading of said property, check out the CC-license. I think the URL was something like www.creativecommons.com or something. An example of what a CC-license is can be found on this very site: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3211
    And yes that was a shameless plug for 'Rally' as well :p
     
  13. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I know! No shame here...
     
  14. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    How do you own an idea? How to you own knowledge? I actually saw a sign yesterday at a church with a quote that explains intellectual property perfectly. "A flame does not dim when it lights another candle"

    You loose nothing if someone reproduces something you just happened to come up with first. You may loose a monopoly on selling what you can create from that monopoly, buy you have no right to limit the other persons labor to create what they want from the idea or knowledge they obtained from what you created.
     
  15. nodz

    nodzExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I think that is the crux of the problem. Current society values the intellectual rights as such because it is based on monetary recompense for use of the intellectual property. If you designed something (and it was your means of survival/life/income) how would it be if someone came along and didn't pay you, so you essentially went without a wage. I am all for paying the artist (whether it be fine art/music/literature/engineerng etc for what they have created) what I object to is the coporate robbery that happens, where corporations don't pay the artist truly what they are entitled to.
     
  16. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    CCL offers an alternative. You hold all rights and can still sell those rights separately to say... Fox Films, while a site like this can use the Creative Commons License to just credit you and distribute it for free and freely. You OWN the rights, but give other people the chance to escape the trappings of copyright.
     
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