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INDIVIDUALISM

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by JOHN E., Feb 2, 2010.

  1. JOHN E.

    JOHN E.Member New Member


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    THE INDIVIDUAL IS IMPORTANT AND SO ARE INDIVIDUAL THOUGHTS. OUT OF OUR REALISTIC PESSIMISM COMES SOMETHING POSITIVE. A SOLUTION TO SOME OF THE OPPRESSIVE SHIT DICTATED TO US NO MATTER HOW OLD YOU ARE. REMEMBER TO SOLVE A PROBLEM, ONE HAS TO RECOGNIZE IT. WE KNOW THE PROBLEM, DONT BE AFRAID TO SHOW YOUR DISCONTENT. IT IS AT LEAST A START. BY THE WAY JUSTKILLING SOME DOOM RIGHT NOW SOME EARLY SHIT. THANKX FOR LETTING ME VENT. JOHN E.
     

  2. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    no problem....anytime
     
  3. Robino

    RobinoMember Forum Member


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    Feb 25, 2010
     
    Individualist anarchism? Thats nothing I wanna be part of..

    We need eachother - the collective - but like you say we are indviduals >>in the collective<<.
    Class consciousness, solidarity, direct action and workers' self-management thats the way to go.
     
  4. miserablist

    miserablistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    BUT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THAT THE COLLECTIVE IS SIMPLY ANOTHER FORM OF OPPRESSION LIKE LOWER CASE LETTERS. AND CORRECT PUNCTUATION.
    :ecouteurs:
     
  5. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    Disagree strongly with your last statement, agree fully with your first.
     
  6. Unreasonable Man

    Unreasonable ManActive Member Forum Member


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    Feb 14, 2010
     
    Individualism and Collectivism are both useless when they come at the expense of the other.
     
  7. Unreasonable Man

    Unreasonable ManActive Member Forum Member


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    Feb 14, 2010
     
    Individualism and Collectivism are both useless when they come at the expense of the other.
     
  8. back2front

    back2frontExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 26, 2009
     
    The problem with individualism is that it does not challenge the state but rather encourages a lifestyle within it. Even Max Stirner suggested that it could be useful to work alongside others in the promotion of self. There is also the problem of rearing children.To follow the individualist line then, suggests that we should not inform children at all for to do so would be coercive.
    Other than that the freedom to be individual makes for a better collective society. Collectivism, or anarchist-communism, allows the individual to be unhindered. In the anarchist collectives in Catalonia anyone who didn't wish to join the revolution was allocated enough land to feed themselves and their family and left to their own devices.

    Hierarchy can be both individual and collective of course, and no matter what name or adjective you apply to it it is still a hierarchy, that is to say top-down rather than bottom-up.

    Bottoms Up!
     
  9. blackrainbow

    blackrainbowNew Member New Member


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    Apr 26, 2010
     
    i say individualism... collectives always build.. setup criterias for membership, and usually always end up becoming either a microcosim of what they were intially opposed to if not a mirror image of it.
     
  10. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 19, 2010
     
    Probably one of the wisest quotes i've read on the internet for a while.
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    expense of others?? the only one who would not be benefit from collectivism is the bourgeoisie.
     
  12. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I don't understand the pro collectivist position that is taken. It is value in the collective over the individual that brings nationalism, racism, sexism, so much of religious nonsense and that causes so many in the world to support state violence against that oppose the collective they feel part of. They do so much violence through a vote, to support an action by the collective (which disconnects the personal morality of their action), which they would never do on their own. Its the disconnect of personal responsibility for the morality of actions that allows so much support for so much evil done through the state. It is what creates the disconnect from the shareholder to the unethical actions of the corporation, even though it is the business they own a part of. It is collective pride that supports all the evils done that got a flying pass at the time. The murders committed by governments, cruelty exacted through religions, ignorance upheld though social norms because it was seen as part of the collective, and not seen as actions being committed by individuals. The liberty of the individual and the responsibility of the actions performed by the individual is what needs to be unmasked from the veil of collectivist ideas. Ideas like government, religion, racism and sexism that stem from viewing people as a collective rather than as individuals. It is the individual that acts, not the collective. It is the individual that thinks, not the collective. It is the individual that feels, not the collective.
     
  13. Robino

    RobinoMember Forum Member


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    Feb 25, 2010
     
    If we gonna argue that way, so is the value in the invdiviuals that brings capitalism, bourgeois and false consciousness...
     
  14. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 19, 2010
     
    Ungovernable:
    Depends. Total collectivism can lead to a lot of rules and regulations, that are there just so that people don't have to get their view of the world challenged. Personal freedom is essential
     
  15. ILuvEire

    ILuvEireExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Glorification of either the collective OR the individual leads to destruction. I think that an emphasis on collectivism, while making sure that the individual stays just so, individual is very important. I think we should understand that we're all individuals who need to band together to get things done. I also think that the "collective" should be kept in perspective. When you begin to see the collective as something other than SIMPLY a group of individuals working together, when you start to personify the collective or give it some kind of life, that's when things get out of hand. Then it will lead to an "us vs. them," situation, in which, of course, you get all the problems in collectivism as you said.

    Glorifying the individual should also never take place. To see what happens when that goes on, simply look at society today. :p