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i wanna talk somalia

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by grippster, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    hahah, you know they know they`ve lost the discussion when they pull the somalia card.

    haha perfect, he`s basically asking for it. occupy the suburbs!
    i don`t know how americans feel about fema, but isn`t cutting it gonna make it ten times worse? how the hell does he think they`re gonna rebuild their homes out there?
     
  2. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 11, 2011
     Mexico
    Mit believes in the invisible hand the free market HAHA, but he doesn’t have the guts to tell that to the citizen of New Jersey. Sorry peeps no free government hand out to you free loaders, well if you die in the cold or don’t have any food, you cant expect government to help you out! GET A JOB!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. grippster

    grippsterMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2012
     
    why is anarcho capilalism a contradiction? I read alot of the FAQ, but the authors were terrible and never got to any points.

    is it because people with money would have more authority than people w/o? I suppose I can see that. They wouldnt have a justice system to hire lawyers with but they could hire people with guns?
     
  4. grippster

    grippsterMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2012
     
    cant the same tactics that would be used to stop government from reforming be used to stop people from taking advantage of money?

    i started watching the somalia thing. so far it seems good. i just dont like how he keeps saying the islamic army is backed by al qaeda. its impossible for the public to know if al qaeda actually exists or not.
     
  5. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 19, 2010
     
    Grippster:
    The whole point of capitalism is the idea that some owns the means of production - which will mean some has to sell their work, and thereby being owned by those owning the means of production - in other words, there's a clear authority already there, where the people working won't have the same rights as those owning them, and those owning the means of production ultimately having the power to decide over other peoples lives (by firing them, choosing their payment and all the crap we know from today).

    Also, money is power, and those with a lot of money will always be seen more "positively" in society - thereby creating a new hierarchy
     
  6. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    haha!
    yeah its funny how in todays society everything becomes your fault and not ..societys fault. Don`t have a home? Your fault. No money? Your fault. No job? Your fault. Have to chose between paying rent and eating? You fault. Lets cut more in the welfare sector shall we.
     
  7. morethanfights

    morethanfightsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 10, 2012
     
    hahahahahaha jerk...
     
  8. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 11, 2011
     Mexico
    This is for you grippster:

    What happened to Neo-Liberalism? I thought it was amazing, american capitalist talk a lot about the Chilean model, especially the privatization of health care and social security.

    Funny the Chilean model never privatized the Militarized Polices (carabineros) or the Militaries health care or social security, and fuck they were instructed by the top students of Milton Friedman, those wacky chicago boys. And those fuckers believed that shit, but were probably afraid that if it work just as planned, you don't want the people you just screwed over to be the police and military cuz they will probably come after your ass with some guns.

    It seems to me, that Neo-Liberalism worked for the rulers of Chile, but in doing so it got rid of the "middle class" and created a very unstable nation state. As you can see by this thread: "CHILE IN TURMOIL" viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7492

    It seems to me as other people have said before that capitalism is very radical in its need to constantly reinvent itself, and know since the reality of neo-liberalism is know, well lets just try to change the name to "ANARCHO-CAPITALISM" and well hopefully no will notice.

    And even American lefties are talking about "Sustainable Capitalism" HAHA :lmao:
     
  9. grippster

    grippsterMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2012
     
    arent you mixing capitalism with corporatism?
     
  10. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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     Mexico
    I am talking about capitalism and how it exists in the real word today: corporatism, state-capitalism, or the free market, they are all based on exploitation of people for profit, and not some capitalist theory that has never existed in the real world, except maybe Somalia.

    So fuck it, go to Somalia and write a book about it from an “anarcho-capitalist” perspective and hopefully we won’t see you being taken as a hostage and ransomed for Dollar Bills by some other Somalian “anarcho-capitalist” that might see you as a way to make a buck.

    Chomsky refutes "libertarian" "anarcho"- capitalism

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPUvQZ3rcQ[/video]
     
  11. anessen

    anessenActive Member Forum Member


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    Jan 1, 2010
     
    Somalia is an anarcho-capitalist paradise. You want the brutality of capitalist competition without a government to rein it in? There you go. I hope you're good with a gun.

    Somalia is a perfect example of why anarcho-capitalism doesn't work.
     
  12. grippster

    grippsterMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2012
     
    nova- u make some good points. but arent we all just talking about theory here? i like to refer to prehistoric days when talking about anarchy. but the truth is, i cant really say i know what things were like back then and what has ever reeally happened in the world except for in my personal life and what i have witnessed in my community in my life. also reality is relative, making history relative. so every history book read has to be taken with a grain salt, knowing that it was a written by a humanbeing whose percpective is unique.

    im getting the idea from this forum that if money exists, it is automatically capitalism. is this what most anarchists think?

    money can be used to exploit people. it also can be used in a non exploitive way. take for example a co-op where the insitution exists soley for the workers, not to further the insitution itself (corporatism) or the people owning the business (more traditional capitlism). overall though, i have to agree with you. it seems that the application of money tends to naturally lead to exploitaton of humans. it is probably better to cut it out completely and form a way of life without it.

    going back to thoery, i think anything is possible. my coworkers beleive the company we work for is a good company and that it overall does good for the world. they are of course retarded. but it goes to show that when people beleive in something, anything is possible!

    i really need some help though nova. the anarchy FAQ is really poorly written. on wiki, anarchy seems well represented, but there are many many words i do not know the definition too yet. i will get around to deciphering it later, but can u give me anarchy in a nutshell plz?
     
  13. grippster

    grippsterMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2012
     
    joe - u are simplyfing the situation in somalia to much. theres alot more going on than just a money using country w/o government, ALOT MORE

    which reminds me nova. i finished the somalia thing. im suprised that you showed it considering that its a corporate news perspective on the subject. i also am considering alot of the war scenes and gunshots to be staged. but thats just me taking it with a grain of salt. i am also considering the possibilty that the journalism was spot on
     
  14. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    There is no point in having money in a co-op, you might as well use pokémon cards. Money in an anarchist community would just be a formality, utterly pointless.

    It seems like nothing we can say will convince you. I could ask a guy I used to work with on his opinion but that wouldn't be good enough either, would it?
    You're obviously just looking for info to support your cause. We're human, all humans are biased, there is nothing wrong with that.
    Why don't you go and prove us all wrong?
     
  15. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    Somalia is a failed state caused by US Imperialism not an anarchy. Anarchist Capitalism is not really anarchism because there is still coercion and hierarchy and exploitation.
     
  16. grippster

    grippsterMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2012
     
    in a land where people are free. how is exploitation prevented without authority?
     
  17. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    sorry mate, you can't justify exploitation by claiming it can't be avoided with no authority present. you're basically saying we can't play nice with no one to set rules and boundaries for us. i have a little more faith in humanity than that.
    besides, how do you explain the authority and exploitation today?
     
  18. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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     Mexico
    HAHA im surprised you watched it, i'm not sure if you were, or are a troll, so hey if i was going to contemplate somalia=anarchy well then, i could mess with you a bit...HAHA :D

    But any way i still think there is no need for you to go to somalia or anyone else, there is much happening in the states, that you can participate in, or you can bring about in the states...like where i mentioned New Jerseys...

    As this here episode of SubMedia called "Anarchy In The USA" point out at the 6:10 through the end of the episode, they call this shit Mutual Aid!!!

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obbux0xsTaQ&list=UUDG73pGqESS1XcEVY_0xwWw&index=1&feature=plcp[/video]

    And check this out also...

    Construction Materials Expropriated from Luxury Developments in Manhattan, Delivered to Victims of Sandy

    NEW YORK, NY—Over the past two weeks, a group of concerned New Yorkers has been expropriating thousands of dollars worth of tools and materials from luxury residential developments across Manhattan and delivering them to neighborhoods devastated by Superstorm Sandy.

    The confiscated materials, some of them never even used, include: shovels, wheelbarrows, hand trucks, pry bars, tarps, buckets, hard bristle brooms, industrial rope, contractor trash bags, particulate masks, work lights, work gloves, flashlights, heat lamps, and gasoline.

    Liberated from their role in building multimillion-dollar pieds-à-terre for wealthy CEOs and Hollywood celebrities, these tools are now in the collective hands of some of the hardest-hit communities in the city where they are now being allocated and shared among the people who need them most. These expropriations will continue as long as the demand for them exists....

    to read the rest: http://anarchistnews.org/content/constr ... tims-sandy

    So fuck somalia \m/
     
  19. AgentOrange

    AgentOrangeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 28, 2010
     
    i guess the media calls this theft, robbery and chaos... :lmao:
     
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