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Hungary on homeless

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Bakica, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     

    More shit : http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2 ... l-criminal

    unacceptable and neo-liberal. I guess everyone has to lose their jobs in order to see how every inch of this system is rotten.
     

  2. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah, homelessness should be a fucking crime but not for the homeless, it's a crime of the System!
     
  3. hobolosophy

    hobolosophyActive Member Forum Member


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    Aug 5, 2013
     
    They already did the same shit in many countries. Even in winter they kick homeless people out of the train stations almost everywhere in Europe. I'm sure that the cops and security guards do the same in the US. There are so many laws against homeless people in nearly every country. Another example that laws aren't created to protect human rights. They are created to hold the people down. Especially poor people.
     
  4. Annie

    AnnieExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 22, 2013
     
    oh yes, half-a-year-old "christian science" as a reliable source for the horrors in the far aways...
    btw:
    zagreb had nine frost-dead the last winter and to my knowledge 4 homeless people were killed by well situated fellow citizens in the last two years, around 800 "travellers" are still moving on the streets - my one-and-a-half-million hometown has around the same number to care for - i'm not afraid to mention that i actually do something for them, along with a lot of my friends around here - and we do a lot more than posting shitty sources missing out completely the main problem in budapest and other large parts of hungary.
    amongst a lot of other "magyar" issues just for example the national-wide working-duty for welfare recipients starting per "law" some two years ago - in a time with a deficit of avaliable jobs, while many of the unemployed sinti and roma (the "unofficial" main targets for the campaign) actually applauded the plan, because it was an opportunity to raise their meagere income...
    now it's the homeless in budapest, but the very same demagogic call on biases and social anxieties happens in almost every larger magyar settlement - so they plan on a national scale again and with lots of public propaganda about the "foul" branches of the nation, and the magyar rightwing is far from being alone in this crisis-tactics, but i guess thats a bit to large for the good christians and their readership...
    you don't need to "hold down" the people that are already at the bottom of everything, liable to be targeted by some frustraded weirdos and the "good" liberals alike - the real problem is their stigmatisation as a "social" issue - which they are indeed, but in the sense that especially anarchists should do more for them than complain and drown themselves in the "fucked up system".
     
  5. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Your whole post is supposed to be an insult for me ? I don't give a fuck what you do nor where you live. I don't give a fuck about you or your aggressive shitty talks. I've read this news on my language, opened google and typed 'homeless people in hungary' and I took the first thing that showed up just to INFORM others who don't live in Europe and are maybe interested in reading some news since the forum has been dead for a while. If someone wanted to read more about the topic he / she could surely just google and find something interesting. And this topic is just a REMINDER of what capitalism is doing to people every day. I'm aware of the fact that system works against homeless people. I'm also part of the movement ( if it can be called that way ) called 'Ulične svjetiljke' and am helping homeless in every way I can ( of course I could do WAY more than I'm doing at the moment, but helping them with magazines or helping them with food is better than nothing, wouldn't you agree ? ) I'm also aware of the fact that hungary has right-wing problems ( pp Jobbik ) BUT same goes for every country especially on balkan ( HCSP in Croatia, Golden Dawn in Greece, SRS in Serbia, nationalism in BiH and so on....) and this topic is not to debate / talk about issues of hungary but about the attack on homeless people. Fuck you, you're still angry because of that 'helping cops' thread ? If you're here to insult me in anyway please just leave, i'm not here to compete or shit-talk. I'm here to learn and read.
     
  6. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sorry but I have to agree with Bakica, you've always had this aggressive manner of attacking people from your very first post onwards, as well as a kind of braggy, superior attitude like you're better than everybody else and it reeks of elitism.
    It may be your nature but it comes across as very arrogant and snobbish.
     
  7. hobolosophy

    hobolosophyActive Member Forum Member


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    I had my trouble here in the beginning too, if you guys remember. But I didn't join with the intention to bash the members and I never thought that I'm above someone. What Annie is doing is a pain in the ass. I'm used to hard political discussions and I would laugh about what she is doing. She probably tells us soon that she invented anarchism and the whole world. But she attacks members on a personal level, corrupts historical facts and behaves like an elitist. First I was happy that the forum seems to come back from the dead. Now I have to admit that I almost puke when I see that Annie destroys every chance for a productive discussion in almost every topic. She seems to be very indoctrinated and not very open to other people's opinions. So there is in fact no reason for her to be on a forum if she thinks she knows everything. All the stuff she writes seems stiff and dead.
    I'm not a big fan of kicking someone out of the forum and it's not up to me to decide that anyway. But why the fuck does a topic about homeless people in Hungary have to turn into a story about her and how she feeds the underprivileged poor lowest of the low. If there is one thing worse than an elitist it's an elitist who uses others just to boost their ego. Again: Don't use anarchism to feed your elitist desires. There are probably lots of people on this forum who have seen and done more than you and who don't have to brag about it in every fucking topic. Thinking that you are better than others goes against the fundamentals of anarchism. Just climb down from your throne and I am sure that you will like it much better.
     
  8. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    jejeje, the lonely hearts club is on the warpath, makes me really all feeling arrogant and snobbish too...
    and so i brag about my knowledge of:
    'Ulične svjetiljke' is just a sub-club of the roman-catholic "charity" club Ulični suputnik, stigmatising homeless people on their homepage as potentially "anti-social" and a "burden to the community"... while preparing the "professional solution" of the social issue via institutionalization of the culprits so "social workers" can have a job, the tourists won't stumble over the street sleepers any longer and the public money comes into the right hands... not to mention the religious part to redeem the fallen in the eyes of our lord, including pilgrimages to some cult site of the mother mary...
    quite a place to go for the textile peddlers poodle:
    eh flaming grandmother, will you report me to your master this time - or will it be the rightwing scum parents, those you took your money and housing from?
    you are really priceless!

    but stop, there is one true gem hidden:
    ah, but they want their stage back for those plays of the riotporn, virtual misanthropic do-gooding, and the gospel of the pudent activism that make this forum the place it is... :ecouteurs:
    nah, she can't, cuz indoctrinated by gobblelosophy she knows that i was at the beginning, with nothing but an augustiner beer in my hand - and i saw that it was all good....
     
  9. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    It is obvious that you don't know what you're talking about and I wish not to argue with you. I will open thread for banning you and annie and everyone can vote, if it happens that you're not banned I think I'll be forced to leave this forum because of you and your arrogant behavior.
     
  10. hobolosophy

    hobolosophyActive Member Forum Member


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    Aug 5, 2013
     
    I wonder how you survived 552 posts on this forum that you hate so much. The rest is just personal and butthurt blabla that doesn't deserve a reply.
     
  11. usman123

    usman123New Member New Member


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    Sep 10, 2013
     
    ain stations almost everywhere in Europe. I'm sure that the cops and security guards do the same in the US. There are so many laws against homeless people in nearly every country. Another exam - See more at: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16340#sthash.BfYuFuyW.dpuf
     
  12. predic

    predicMember Forum Member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    Hungarian politician are surely shit idiots, but we have also rich anarchists and homeless anarchists and homeless stay homeless, without help about sleeping, shower, cloths, finding job to become economically independent from other people...how much money you have, that's how many friends you have, and job and normal life depend from connections.
    for example, I am homeless from 10.july 2003, you can count how long, I was homeless in Serbia, Swiss, Belgium,Hamburg, Copenhagen, Sweden. I got help only in basel (squat villa rosenau (burned this year) and one more "private squat") and shortly in copenhagen before police attacked squat in 2007. in serbia also I had sometimes help from some anarchists, activists and students who are not anarchists. belgium and hamburg and sweden... people watch their ass, shit mentality.

    "All things for all men, since all men have need of them, since all men worked to produce them in the measure of their strength, and since it is not possible to evaluate everyone's part in the production of the world's wealth... All is for all!" - Kropotkin

    and when I am already talking about homeless, here is my article I wrote it for the day of homeless:

    [​IMG]
    October 17, 2013 - Today is Homeless Day in Copenhagen, Nytorv, from noon till 4 p.m. Such event is good to make public attention about homeless but it is question how much people will be moved to do something concretely. Many people are consumers and even if there is some disaster, they don’t help personally than they just press button on computer and pay some money (for example for Haiti victims, but this money is stolen and victims don’t see 90% of donations). So, even if they do something, they will just press button and some organizations can get money, I don’t say it is totally bad but much better help for homeless is that somebody help them directly with job or education. There is one surprising example, programmer (Patrick McConlogue) approached to homeless (Leo) in New York and offered him 100 bucks OR javascript books and laptop, homeless chose second option and man gave him also lessons personally one hour every day. After 2 months, homeless is making smartphone application about climate changes. And of course, newest news is that cops arrested Leo (http://www.businessinsider.com/leo-the- ... ed-2013-10) for sleeping in the park and hardly gave him back laptop but now he is free. You can follow story at facebook. So, homeless are criminalized by politicians (http://www.nlchp.org/content/pubs/11.14 ... FINAL1.pdf), for example in Florida you can be punished if you ask passersby for money or for sleeping, sitting, or even eating in public areas.
    Beside it, most people who grew up in capitalism respect you and accept you on the basis of how much money you have, so, homeless will be always discriminated as long as there is capitalism. Individual homeless can make money and escape from homelessness but homeless as group will be always discriminated.
    Beside it, government and medias spread story that homeless are junkies and there is no hope for them, the aim is to justify the fact that politicians will rather spend money for war than for people, but in reality, many homeless are drunk maybe one time in one month and 70% of homeless are immigrants it means they just need to get job and they will not be homeless anymore. I was in Berlin, Hamburg , Belgium, Denmark and Swiss and Sweden, everywhere immigrants from East Europe and Africa are homeless. Politicians created rules against people with different nationality and color of skin and they pushed them in ghetto, in poverty. Without money, you will not be accepted in capitalist society and there is no integration without money (the same case is with refugees, they are kept in poverty and they stay excluded from society). So, I can say that for big part of homelessness, politicians are responsible. The biggest number of homeless today in Hamburg and Scandinavia are Africans and Romanians. Many of them are very rare drunk and maybe one in 100 use some easy drugs, but they are refused for jobs. At other side, Danish students are drunk very often and they don’t have problem to get job.
    One more important thing about racism and keeping people excluded is to give possibility to domestic people to exploit foreigners. Many East Europeans and Africans are underpaid and sometimes even they don’t get full salary, manager take part of money for himself. When he takes 200 euro from 30 cleaners, he makes 6000 euro for himself + his salary. In any case, places for homeless are visited by social cases and poor pensioners, not only by homeless. Unfortunately, places for homeless are visited by secret service spies also, because of spying on immigrants. Many people would not believe that, because what homeless can do? But fascist politics is like that, secret service spread propaganda against immigrants with medias to keep us poor and exploited, when we stay poor they spy us to send us in the prison if we do something criminal. African who sells drugs will finish arrested fast, spies will send him criminal police, they will never do it with their domestic citizen. They want to make orisons full with poor immigrants and to deport us and they use it also to make articles in medias against immigrants. Job of secret service is theoretically security of society but in reality they make propaganda and they arrest those groups that are target of politicians.
    As for me, I am homeless from 10 July 2003, I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, blabla, even if I drink as I said, it is not reason for homelessness, many students are alcoholics and they are not homeless. In America they would call me veteran homeless. I never got job from West Europeans or Yugoslavians in EU and I asked in several countries. Many Yugoslavians are rich but they are adapted in egoistic capitalist society in the West, they are here many years and they don’t have our mentality anymore, in socialism it is shame if you don’t help if you can but it is not so in capitalism. I asked and criminals, first time in Denmark in April 2007, but they are not interested for immigrants. Now after so many years I believe it is better that immigrants don’t mix with domestic people, we are too much different, sometimes to speak it is OK but to spend whole day together, that’s much harder. Therefore I don’t try to be with Danish women, even if I wanted sometimes, it was about sex and not relationship. They are crazy for man with money, not for man without money, they grew up in capitalism. Young women don’t care for money but they are too much young and secret service would misuse any chance to arrest me, I don’t know what is the law in DK about women who are 16 or 17, and nobody ask: are you 18? Although it is better to ask, but it is not sure you will get true answer, young women can lie just to get boyfriend, then you finish in the prison. Homeless can hide from women that he is homeless but as I am followed by fascist secret service, they would arrest me or they would send somebody to speak with woman and get her to help them to spy me. So, in my case, it would be possible just to get sex one time and after that to escape. Fascists hate that domestic people mix with immigrants, they would become crazy even if I had one time sex with Danish woman. It is the same in Germany.
    younghomelessI didn’t go today to this homeless day because of raining and I don’t care what politicians will say, they will speak how they care about (domestic) people but it is not true. With resources they have (budget) they can solve problem with homelessness in one or 2 years but they will rather spend money for wars and spying than for housing. National center for social research says that number of homeless jumped 10% in last 2 years in Denmark, in 2011 they had 5300 registered homeless and this year 500 more. But many people believe that there are many unregistered homeless, so, total number is near to 15 000. Beside it, the number of young homeless has risen sharply, so one in five homeless are between 18 and 24 years old. They don’t have family connections to get job, they get some money in Denmark but not enough to pay home. Before taxes they get 700 euro but they should pay home 3 months in advance, it is minimum 2000 euro, they can’t save so much money. One organization for help to immigrants about labor market says that in average 40 immigrants ask weekly for their advices and every fourth seeking help is coming from Romania, and one in five comes from the two West African countries, Nigeria and Ghana. By the way, Nigeria is destroyed by Shell, so, the EU politics and economy are responsible for refugees from Africa. In the end, this refugees become homeless in the EU. This organization says also that police (often with dogs) harass Romanians, they search their bodies and they never give them paper about taken property (confiscated cash, cell phones and even bottle receipts).
    Back to the point, World Homeless Action Day is a worldwide collaborative effort that is held on the 10th day of October every year. The day is there for you and your community to use to create change and make a difference in the lives of people who are experiencing homelessness in your local area. Did you do something for homeless this day or any other day? Many of you didn’t. I don’t blame people, I just say what is the truth. People must survive in present system but surely there are many of them who could do something for other people, not only for homeless. For example Danish students get 700 euro per month from budget just because they are students and somebody had to work for that money. What they did for society? Nothing, they study, they drink beer and they enjoy and many of them even discriminate poor people and immigrants. But they don’t produce money than they get it from budget and from parents, so, they are not so much better than homeless. Studying develop their personal life and not society. I volunteered in organization for help to disabled people when I was student even I didn’t get any money from budget as a student. So, there are many people in Denmark and elsewhere who can help to some people in need, but it is not happening. Possibly because of mentioned prejudice that homeless are junkies or mentally ill and there is no hope for them. Remember programmer in USA and try something similar, help to one homeless directly in your life. But don’t try just to buy sandwich and give it to homeless, don’t be surprised if he refuse it. First check what homeless need and become friend more or less with him, speak several times, some people don’t need food than sleeping bag or something else, you can offer him/her lessons (education in your profession) but the best is to offer them help to get job. Many homeless are not anymore ready for education but 80% of them can work if they get job. As it is said, many young people are homeless and without family connection, they don’t have chance to get job. You can be connection for somebody. That’s how South Americans find job when they come in Europe, they get help from other South Americans who have already jobs or from domestic people who work with immigrants. Alone, people can find job only if they are lucky or they have some special education. Don’t wait for government to solve homelessness, include yourself how much you can. If you are young and you have youth center or occupied house, you can let one or several homeless to sleep there during the night, to take shower or whatever else. Many people have access to different resources and they can share it with other people instead to take everything for themselves. But it is not happening because middle class is not connected with homeless, the same as rich are not connected with middle class, middle class can’t come where come riches and homeless can’t come where come middle class. Capitalist society is not separated only on the basis of exploited and exploiters than people who are exploited are separated as well. Homeless are the lowest level in social hierarchy but it doesn’t mean that homeless can’t bite if somebody makes shit for him :)

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEdn8exwE0E[/video]
     
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