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Helping cops on protests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bakica, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    So, I've asked this question in chat box and it was suggested that I make a thread about it. I've seen lots of pictures of people helping injured cops on protests. Here is one of them :

    http://www.index.hr/lajk/poster/23334/t ... -policajcu


    I've seen a lot of pictures like this lately and I wondered if it was the right thing to do. To be honest I hate the idea of injuring someone and then helping them, sound a bit counterproductive. And even killing a cop is not something I would criticize, since we've all seen lots of cases where police kills protesters ( there is a thread, I think called Middle Earth Revolutions where someone posted a video in which you can see a policeman killing a person who was obviously not going to hurt him ). I should also say that people who work for police aren't forced to work for such brutal and pointless institution. But on the other hand, injuring / killing another person is wrong, is it not ? I'm not a pacifist and as I said I don't like the idea of helping injured policeman on the protests, but still, maybe someone has different opinon ?
     

  2. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Just put him out of his misery :p I'm kidding. Yeah, it's wrong to kill someone in cold blood but I have a problem with the idea of helping a cop at a protest. I'm also keen to see how others feel about this.
     
  3. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    i am not an ACAB person nor will i ever be, but i do belive that the police are drones protecting capitalist intrests and abusers of power in general, if i saw an injured cop i would help the person, i think by that we may be able to change another perspective and show what solidarity really looks like.... :thumbsup:
     
  4. Annie

    AnnieExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 22, 2013
     
    is in my eyes an absolute must, the opportunity is rarely given because of the circumstances, but each of this acts of human greatness demonstrates one fundamental principle:
    we fight repression, repressive ideas and maybe uniforms as a symbol of repression.
    b u t w e d o n' t f i g h t p e o p l e - or the person behind the uniform.

    the cop or the soldier behind the shieldwall or blocking line stands in our way, we try to break their formation for whatever reason & fight them physically to clear the way and to stop them hurting us,
    they are endangering us and our objectives - and we make an end to that.
    but they aren't dangerous anymore from they moment they are injured, wounded, lay helpless on the ground and become d e f e n c e l e s s.

    I finished my nurse training these days, I studied every avaliable source for accident- & trauma medicine and I'm still studying war chirurgy, somewhere in the next few years I plan to go to northern thailand and work for the H'mong Assistance;
    the H'mong fought as mercenaries for the US-aggression against the laot and vietnamese communists - almost 45 years ago.
    the laotians hate them traditionally, the more since the H'mong took the side of the northamericans who bombed laos into ruins, killing almost a quarter of the laot population.
    today the laotians hunt the H'mong like animals, killing children for sports, raping and killing men and women at every opportunity.
    do you get the message?
    with all my skills and knowledge and my anarcho-communist creed I will never hesitate a single moment to keep a human being alive, tend his/her wounds and secure his/her safety in situations of defencelessness.
    I will attack everyone trying to hurt a defenceless human being further by any means at hand and by any means necessary to end the endangerment of a defenceless human being.

    our struggle is a class war - not some fucking hooligan vendetta, crusade or termination war - and not a frustrated masturbation fetish for fenceriding petshopboys, turning their lack of courage into anger against the bogeymen they never fought themselves and never will.
    if you want revenge, a massacre of the defenceless or a total physical victory over "the enemy", then join the army, the police force, become a politician drawing the puppet strings and blabber about "freedom".

    we don't need to love the members of the armed or political organs of our opposition, or worry endlessliy about their wellbeing at all cost, but there is one thing thats making a fundamental difference between us - and the fascists, nazis, stalinists and the fucking democratic hypocrisy:
    thats our humanism - our damned brilliant conviction that humans deserve a free and secure world without hierarchy, repression and murder, no matter what they are or what they have been.
     
  5. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    @Annie

    To be honest, I think what you said is pointless. The same cop you helped on the protest will tomorrow probably beat you up. And I wasn't saying 'kill the injured cop', no, I meant that we should let his 'comrades' ( other cops ) take care of him. Why should we take care of a person we've just injured ? Do they take care of us ? Same goes for facists, you see a bloody fight between antifacists and facists, both sides beaten - do you decide to help both sides ? I would definitely say 'no'. I, myself, have a very little respect for life ( it's a personal thing, i've been through a lot shit and my radical atheism has brought me low respect for life, it is off-topic now and I won't speak of it anymore but I thought maybe you should know that ). Also, about the 'humanism' part, I HAVE to disagree because this sounds like 'free-speech for nazis' bullshit to me. You really sound like a pacifist to me ( not judging, no stereotypes ), revolution / change can't come without blood, I think we can learn something from history, am I not right ?

    No ? People in uniform keep fighting us. And not to mention that these same people keep this whole idea of police-criminal shit alive. How are you going to end a system without taking the power from the people who keep the system alive ?

    I guess you are the opposite of me, since you're a nurse and you have a strong will to help others ( no matter who or what they are ). I have 3 doctors in my closest family so I know what you're trying to say.
     
  6. Annie

    AnnieExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 22, 2013
     
    do you know what you are talking about?

    I've read a lot of your posts on the forum & I got the impression that you never participated in any militant confrontation, never had trouble with cops or soldiers - except maybe for id-checks ect. - so what?

    in your view cops and fascists play the "bad" part in the clips and videos you watch from a save distance, they aren't real to you - again: so what?

    media tip:
    watch "land and freedom" - there is this brilliant scene depicting something like "anarchism":
    a p.o.u-m. patrol brings back a handful of fascists taken pow - and the first action the milicia officer commands: "give the guys something to eat"...
    but I guess it's just a movie to you, somehow entertaining, but nothing to learn from.

    obviously you haven't read this one:
    or are you just trying to troll me?
     
  7. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    I've been on this forum for many years and some bullshit i stood for before is my past now. It is apsolutely true that I've never had any 'militant confrontation' with cops. I don't understand the 'so what ?' part.

    Same goes for KKK, they have never touched me and probably won't, does that make me unable to criticize ? Again, I don't get the 'so what ?' part. I'm not sure if you're showing disrespect towards me just because I've never had a 'real' conflict with cops or am I just overreacting ?

    I've never said I would kill someone in cold blood.

    Please, stop with the bullshit.
    I was refering to :
     
  8. Annie

    AnnieExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 22, 2013
     
    I think it's just & only useless to discuss things like humanism or objectivity with you, not to mention militant struggle or the difference between the bad and the good guys.

    you simply don't like people, I don't want to get personal, but I think there is a reason why you tend to de-personalize the "bad" guys without ever being "the good guy" yourself, so where is your problem?

    if you can't take violence or other aspects of the struggle, just stop watching clips and videos, buy a pet and watch the world go round from your misanthropic corner.

    and to stop the bullshit I'll simply stop to reply to your posts.
     
  9. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    People before we get into some kind of conflict i think we should calm down abit and maybe find a way to figure this out


    i don't think generalizing will change anything, and fighting people here right now won't solve anything

    we are supposed to be international comrades and not rivals or some kind of thing like that.. despite we have another perspective on things we don't need to fight each other like that...
     
  10. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    And when were you ever in a confrontation with cops or the military? That is a BS argument, even if you really are in Egypt or any other place where there have been really violent protests the last few decades.

    And no, there is no point in helping an injured cop unless his or her life is in danger, depending on the situation. If I see someone injured and alone in the streets I won't go up to them and ask if they are a cop or not, I would just help them, but a protest is pretty different.
    People like you are very dangerous in demos, the cops often try to infiltrate and break groups of people apart, and by helping them you are doing exactly what they want. Even if they're injured. They are better armed than us, they would pick an injured cop out and send him/her to the hospital pretty quick, no reason to worry about them.
     
  11. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I have been in the situation where I've had rubber bullets flying past me and where I've seen cops indiscriminately beating people up and I have to admit, emotions tend to take over - fear, anger, defiance, and the feeling of solidarity, not with the cops but with my fellow protesters. Would I hurt an injured, defenseless cop on the ground? No! I don't consider myself a heartless, ruthless bastard. Would I prevent someone else from helping the injured cop? No. But I would find it difficult to have pity for someone who just a minute ago was doing his best to try to hurt me/my friends/my comrades.
     
  12. Fork Me

    Fork MeActive Member Forum Member


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    That's an interesting perspective. I always think my atheism gives me MORE respect for life. For a religious fundamentalist, life on Earth isn't important, it's just a stepping stone to the afterlife. For me, this life here on Earth is all we've got, when it's over it's over. So I treasure my life and don't want to take other people's.
     
  13. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    Not the story I want to talk about really. :/

    I've been religious for VERY long period of my life and all I have to say that religious people cherish life more that anything. It is when I became an atheist I became aware of the fact that people come and go, live and die which for me makes life meaningless and hopeless. I'm still searching for that meaning and hope. As Annie said I might as well be some kind of misanthrope but that's really off topic now.
     
  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    It all depends on the situations particulars doesn't it, being someone who has been involved in everything from street protests to brutal police oppression, to all out war, to prison riots you could say that I'm probably a little desensitized to the misery of my enemy, yet I probably would help a fallen enemy to continue to live knowing the consequences might come back to harm me or my compañerxs, I say that never having actually done it and having been a participant in very disturbing violence, taking an enemy prisoner is also an option when they are fallen. As anarchists it is to our advantage to learn from our own past, many war crimes were committed by both sides in the Spanish Revolution and it is very important that we don't fall into the same mistakes and lose our humanity, love is the reason for anarchism..however never for a moment forget that they are our enemies and treat them accordingly.
     
  15. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    us as anarchists wants to change the world, by that we also want to change how people look at the world, as i mentioned earlier i am not an extreme ACAB person, though i still do not like the police and the police i have met were either extremely arrogant or authortrian pricks who loved their jobs and the power they could abuse, if i see a riot going down and i see any person injured cop or a comrade of mine of course i'll help, but that doesn't mean i like the person i'm helping, perhaps they see a new perspective after that and we may get a new comrade :thumbsup: .
     
  16. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    don't hold your breath... :ecouteurs:
     
  17. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Exactly.

    Being a cop is probably the most ridiculous job you can ever take, you are basically a really dumb human shield, although most of them seem to think they're on top of the world. It takes a certain type of people, usually assholes, to become a cop, so why help them? Even if they become cops because they want to "serve and protect" they are trained to be violent and to serve the elite. I think even in an anarchist society you would end up rejecting people that don't hold the same ideals you do. As much as I like to believe that there is something good in everyone and blabla it is pretty unrealistic to think you can convert a complete asshole, say a fascist or a cop, they would have to find the "right path" on their own I think. That whole Jesus/pacifist thing really rubs me the wrong way.

    And on atheism, it is pretty interesting, but I think it really depends on the person. I mean I have respect for life and all, but I'm also pretty cynical. It depends how you define respect for living things I guess, I really love that we have it in us to work together as one big entity as opposed to lots of ego-centric and annoying individuals, that's when the human race is at its best I think. Like I'M not important, WE are.
     
  18. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I do not think that i m capable of killing a human being.I m pacifist but i have got my share of fights and i won t stand calmly if you attack me but certainly i m not going for kill no mather cop or no cop.
    Vengance, nothing more than that.I kill him, they kill me.when the fuck is it gonna end?
     
  19. Annie

    AnnieExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 22, 2013
     
    so, what do I find - I live in egypt?
    ... (dark outside, can't confirm it)...
    have I participated at militant confrontations?
    my dear, have you forgotten where we are, here on this public forum, right in the midst of the internets?
    this question alone tells me that you too are a little off, far to far to take your statement serious. and btw:
    nice stereotyping, the only thing I miss is:
    white, eurocentric, privileged kids with too much spare time...

    and - of course, groups like these
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesarbe ... Polizisten
    really can't exist, not in a small little world far far away in the multiverse...

    but lets see the bright side:
    I get the impression, the closer one gets to the swirling chaos of a riot, the greater is the awareness of the unfolding drama in it's special aspects and in the final conclusion.
    at least for those who enter the fray for a reason or objective and not some petty personal quirk.

    the struggle, even bakunins idea of violence is creative, it's creating experience and insight and while the wannabe hawks and riotporners always stay far from the line, safe in their homes at the regulars table, commenting the drama like a weird footballgame, the expressions of experienced people seem in my eyes draw close to each other in some important points. there are limits because of the characteristics of the opponents we faced and the emotion we felt while fighting them. to me it's not surprising that exactly the people who actually went over the top and took the field, are the same holding at least the option open to forget about enemy concepts and the big bad bogeyman even under the possibility of consequences.
    this one made my day today:
    there is also the point that we don't have to love them, don't have to forgive them - but they are still no mere objects and they deserve at least some consideration how to deal with them if...

    I wrote my usual long piece commenting the two experienced posters, the young gentleman who seems to consider his position towards the equality of the injured and my background, but I think I exposed myself much too far, this is the internet and not a debate of principles between people who actually are about to join forces in the foreseeable future. nevertheless I feel quite happy with the confirmation of my own impressions concerning the "special" aspects of militant anarchism, even if they still differ from my position. I have no doubt that those, who really are part of the struggle will manage fine to evade repeating the mistakes and failures of the past, learn continually from the daily experience, history too - and whatever will happen in the future.
     
  20. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    I think some people got the question wrong. The question was not weather to kill or not to kill an injured cop. The question was simply would you help him/her if he/she was injured by your comrades ( not in life danger ). I agree that my question may have been confusing since I've mentioned killing cops as well, but that isn't what I wanted to ask.



    Couldn't have said it better.

    Strange way of thinking, maybe too unrealistic. People usually become cops because they are arrogant and violent, nationalist / religious / patriotic, failed to do anything else. You cant' really change any of these characteristics, at least not by helping him on the protest.
     
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