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Help Destroy God

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by SurgeryXdisaster, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. metalpunx

    metalpunxActive Member Forum Member


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    Some folks here seem to suggest that anarchists shouldn't work with the religious, even on issues where we see eye-to-eye with them, solely because they're religious. To me, that's shorted sighted. While I will agree that trust shouldn't be given freely, I don't believe that any organization as a whole should be trusted - even anarchist ones. I'm especially leery of groupthink.


    I suppose my reasons for being sympathetic to the religious radicals has to do with my background. I grew up in a very Catholic home, and while I long gave up religion, it was the righteous anger of priests that I met who were disgusted at the injustices of the world that got me into radical politics to begin with. Throughout my life, I've met more religious people who genuinely care about the suffering of their fellow man, than I have non-religious. I understand not everyone's experience is the same as mine, but we are all products of our surroundings.
     
  2. ryan1980

    ryan1980Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Of course you shouldn't work with the religious. It's counterintuitive to anarchist end goals. Anarchists work for non-hierarchal equality. Religious people simply work to produce more religious people by way of dogmatic evangelism.

    If you, as an anarchist, want to feed/house/give care to people. You can feed/house/give care to all the people you want, as long as you have the resources to do so. If the Church wants to feed/house/give care people, They can feed/house all the people they want, as long as they have the resources to do so; but they don't.

    They don't because of their BS dogma. They won't feed the LGBT community and they can't house M/F couples who aren't married and won't give contraception to teens. If they do, it's only after a sermon or confession or baptism.

    So if you think that anarchists are willing to comply with that ethic. You're wrong, and if you see "eye to eye" with any of that, then GTFO.
     
  3. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    What the fuck do you think religion is? Outstanding individualism?

    So according to you, you take much more inspiration from priests than your fellow anarchists...from Catholic priests none the less... :lmao:
     
  4. metalpunx

    metalpunxActive Member Forum Member


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    Don't confuse the collective for the individual. Religion, as a whole, is a monolithic monstrosity. The individual, however, is a different story.



    As I've already mentioned, I believe religion is simply another means of control. However, the individual person, even people who are part of religious is judged on what their own merit. And I've never said that I wasn't also inspired by anarchists and their thinkers. Stirner and Proudhon's writings resonated strongly with me. However, I also drew inspiration from Tolstoy and Padre Gutierrez. However, perhaps to put things in perspective the book that solidified my take on anarchism wasn't even a book on radical politics but Carl Jung's "The Undiscovered Self".

    Of course, putting theory into practice is just as important and at the very least I respect anyone who stands up against corruption, even if I don't entirely agree with their beliefs, as long as they further the oppression of the human race. I fail to see how some like Ammon Hennacy, however, is a great tyrant.
     
  5. ryan1980

    ryan1980Experienced Member Experienced member


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    No, same story. Christianity is a monotheistic religion, there's 2 billion Christians world wide. There is no "individual" aspect when you're working from a singular book that all of humanity is supposed to follow. Just because you want to publicly confuse the Gesellschaft/Gemeinschaft aspect, doesnt mean youre not part of the Christian RELIGION.
     
  6. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Ahh this explain's it.... :ecouteurs:
     
  7. octoistire

    octoistireActive Member Forum Member


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    Jan 17, 2011
     
    of course there should be no connection with religious organizations, same way with any fascist organization that gives charity.

    i dont agree with the idea of labels being used to discriminate against people with different subjective beliefs when they are hurting no one (personally, i dont believe this should even matter in a mature stateless society.).
    one of the biggest differences between religious thought and scientific thought is the existence of the "soul" of the individual (personally i believe we have no soul. what we call the "soul" is merely intention and any feelings of being an ever-present identity are only illusion.)

    we are just organic beings that communicate through symbols; and what if an individuals way of communicating with him/herself is different, as long as they know right from wrong?
     
  8. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    oh yes, let people put all their fears and personal issues into something that doesn't exist, just for comfort, let them believe in the tooth fairy, santa and the evil truud walking over the mountains in stormy nights... and wait for the "mature" stateless society - good luck to you, i strongly prefer to live and work with mature people not wasting their time with harebrained pipedreams.

    name me one science that called for the termination of nonbelievers, the furthering of the faith via fire and sword, or one that's putting up rites and rules to control and manipulate even the most faithful hearts and minds, making up phantoms to "believe" in while declaring knowledge and progress in reality "heretic".

    piece of modern world update:
    there is no science saying "there is no soul", all they say is "we never found a one" and some even keep searching for it, just to make sure, believe it or not: science isn't afraid of the unknown...
    guess the emanzipatory aspect of anarchism, the part of enabling people to take responsibility for their life and reality, somehow managed to escape you?
     
  9. octoistire

    octoistireActive Member Forum Member


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    why should i name anything? i am not here to defend organized religion. your just talking stupid. what i was trying to get at is that objective results are what matter above everything else in my opinion.

    and why the "piece of modern world update"? usually the main difference, in my opinion, between science and religion is the existence of a soul. it was just an example.

    and how did it manage to escape me? you are assuming someone is restricted because they do not think like you? how can you even tell?.. ill tell you how and thats by looking at their actions.
     
  10. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Iiiiiigh, it's the anthro-worman again, as usual dragging his private little extra along in his big shoes...
    Right, why name anything if there is nothing except smoking ol'mommas ashes - but wait:
    This time it's "the end justifies the means" instead of "metaphors" trashed by the activist preaching
    "mystic religion for rejected outcasts"... omigawd!
    Nothing new so far:
    [​IMG]

    I believe you're the red one octowhatever - the one with the shortest antenna... Really the right one to talk about being stupid - plain dumb and ignorant...

    @nike - do yourself a favor and use the "members post"-search, then do some reading (22 posts, one desperate favorite) - so much about "the actions"... o_O
     
  11. octoistire

    octoistireActive Member Forum Member


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    haha fuck you. dragging my own private little extra? you mean my opinion? anyone with a half brain will know what im talking about, i trashed nothing. and i dont see how ive contradicted myself at all.

    yes, the end justifies the means in some cases and that includes using metaphors, its all relative anyway so results are what should be pursued.
     
  12. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    UUUH! How would you do that with that short thingie of yours, theotubby?
    Sorry, you have my sympathy, but your type never turned me on:
    red on the outside, white (and wormy?) below.... o_O
    The end of 400 years of god, guns and genozide - theotubby in disneyland (under god): What a result!
    The means produce the mean - What a metaphor!
    Yes, half a brain should be enough to get it - so how you'll manage with less and those big empty shoes...

    And by the way, I'm about working on a cartoon about you, including your trashy short little private extra...
    Guess I'll title it "Noisy Symptom", alternative: Braindead Flatulence...
    Lallalution Sweetheart :ecouteurs: !
     
  13. octoistire

    octoistireActive Member Forum Member


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    im not even sure if you read what i had to say. its all pretty simple actually, the only unorthodox thing i did was incorporate metaphors into it. i thought it was a pretty creative way to express what i had to say. that is why i posted it on general discussion.

    dont get me mixed up with organized religion, seems like your trying really hard to group me with something that i have no connections with. how the fuck am i responsible or even defending "400 years of gods and genocide"? (organized religion has been around longer than that, and religion itself has been around for far longer.) the results of religion are what matter. im not trying to brainwash people, or make money by exploiting people. instead i share it for free because it has no value in itself. your just talking shit for the sake of talking shit.

    i am against religion as much as the next person, but i know why i am against it, i dont just get told "religion is bad" and go around talking shit to feel witty. but its ok though, i understand that im not around a bunch of hippies.

    this talk of not tolerating others beliefs over judging by actions is pure politics. as long as a person is competent why should any of that matter, now, if the individual has fascist beliefs then i will agree that they should be met with hostility.

    i wonder if in the future people will murder others "in the name of science", simply because they dont have the same belief system.
     
  14. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 18, 2009
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    There is strength in numbers, and weakness in division. Can't someone with religious beliefs take a bullet and die for the struggle just as well as an athieist? Or must only elitists apply?
     
  15. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    i actually have read what you and your likes wrote (and i still have to fight down the disgust a person with an average european education (ELITIST!!!) feels while making her way thru the ridiculous trash you made up, forcing your private little extra into every throat avaliable as soon as the bell rings "religion":
    arf arf, 400 years of constant flag waving, frantic use of nra-toys on full automatic and disneyland the great justifying the mean worked great on you, my regards to mr. pavlov. (and who the fuck wrote "save the youth of america"?)
    (and by the way: national anarchists, free market libertarians, temporary liberated zones, liberation by climbing up the trees again, green anarchy and the wicca revolution - all growing out the "new world" - huh!!!)

    (@gobble: even if theotubby loves you, better fuck me, even more better let's fuck us because your free mature mind that really turns me on!)

    oh, i don't really want to mention the lack of talent while dragging by your one and only big "shared" theme and what - creativity???!!! (at this point i almost started to cry with pain.)
    collecting bits and pieces from the internets, mixing them up with mommas world view and further inspired by fantasy writers novels and the pr of their "societies of followers" is called plagiating bullshit around here, student of anthropology... barely able to deal with the simplest basics of sciences (the only difference...in your relative "opinion")

    again it's sexy gobbledigooks, because i couldn't say it better:
    and what the hell is wrong with you: dragging old franz k. from his grave to back up your telepathic-gorilla-deficites?
    no, i'm not surprised that a simple "transformation" is already too much for you, no wonder green day had to write "american idiot":
    and the really creepy part - "sharing" bullshit without value:
    (for the record: i used the "edited" version of the quote)
    were you able to comprehend a single word of what Lil'Apple wrote? obviously not, telepathic danny was right on your level of ability, childrens stories for infantile minds, how unorthodox - but guess it's just "relative" again.

    and you over-ambitious trashman dared to "ask" what misery came first to make up the world we currently live in:
    the machinations of prehistoric city-neurotic creeps, "sharing their "ideas" to the "rejected outcasts", craving for attention, making up bits and pieces of halfcooked fears and and raw disorientation - the end justifies the means:
    just prey on the weak, promising release and salvation... telepathic worm.

    take a look in the mirror you big blabbling fanboy - what you'll see is the reason for some of our current problems:
    greedy and dishonest slave characters, preaching the blessings of their chain, farting out their ragtag "knowledge", giving the martyr if opposed, too afraid to grow up and break the connection to mommys nightmare - oh yes, it's all relative... (too bad that it's not allowed around here to call you the creature your background conditioned you so perfectly to be):
    are the 400 years history of your surroundings a bit to complicated for whats left of your symptomatic "mind" - your living in a "nation under god" showing clearly what the results of religion are: graves, guns and well conditioned slaves, childishly preaching the blessings of infantility and their enlighted personal superstitions - who ever said that a mere symptom defends the illness that spawned it?
    i say, keep oiling the grinding wheel with your "ideas" of relief and easement - thats exactly for what your type is conditioned to... mommies favorite masquerading as "the anarchist":
    talking shit without ever realizing talking shit - omigod - "looking at their actions...":
    no, i'm not the anti-american "german nazi leftwing fascist" your type usually calls me and maybe i should be very careful and better shut up before "the proven activist and student of anthropology" (after: hey punkmar, we have met before...) gets the backup of "the majority" again and i'll be asked to leave.
    "you know" - what? to me it seemed that especially the "germans" had more knowledge about what they were talking about in their little toe than the "flintstones" claim space in that brainwashed nutshell of yours.
    "agriculture spawned religion" - and you are living in an area where native americans roaming the plains without ever planting a seed waged war amongst each other for hundreds of years for the possession of "sacred grounds", ambushing and robbing the southwestern less nomadic nations and somehow i won't be surprised if you'll call their tribal cults "organized" - what was that about anthropology? just another believe system... apples A R E stones... believe me.

    fuck, but in future i won't waste a single thought or whistle them back if the dogs we live with are making sports again in the woods with loinclothed city boys seeking "spirituality" and "freedom of the mind", killing birds "target practicing", leaving them crippled to rot at the dozens, poisoning the goats we care for with the leftover plastic wrappings of their survival kits and stealing from our "repressive" fields and gardens. trash seems to be your main characteristic...

    guess i'll join the pack next time with that battleproved slingshot of mine just to keep that trash away from my living by sending an angry greeting from the agricultural stoneage:
    once upon a time, there were... competent people joining the m/l, pissed of by ignorance and blank ambition... what a waste in times only the trash remained:
    thank mother nature for my tough european stomach
    :ecouteurs: :ecouteurs: :ecouteurs:
     
  16. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    so taking sides with every freeloader avaliable, tolerating them watering down "anarchism" to a mere life style to choose in times of bored disorientation and that "relative" adolescent rebellious attitude without a real cause?
    do supersticious people take the bullet and die - or do they let die the struggling people either directly or via ignorance:
    alll is relative, nothing really matters.
    no matter how "unorthodox" they claim to be, the proof:
    information and practice "without value" - how fitting...
    it isn't that hard to find out about the history of humanity, religion, science, the class war and the best way to end it finally freeing each and every living being from the symptoms of the killing machine. you just have to take the efford and learn, step by step, book by book and activists meeting for activists meeting, personal real life change after real life change.
    caution, carefulnes, personal integrity, some stamnia and maybe devotion are necessary to prevent the dead ends and catchy multicoloured lies to live in - while the grinding wheel keeps turning... and the kids keep on whining about the evil...
    just get real, grow up and stop being an infant pretending the bogeyman is luring under your bed, preventing you from getting up and make a fucking stand for yourself...
    but crying "elitists" is easier, isn't it?
     
  17. octoistire

    octoistireActive Member Forum Member


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    you assume way too fucking much about me. barely able to deal with the simplest basics of sciences? how did you arrive at this conclusion?? i know the differences between reality and fantasy. and how am i plagiarizing? if i am then provide sources and i will gladly give them credit.

    if i am so wrong tell me why i am wrong instead of coming up with cheap insults. why start a shit storm? were all here to have discussion and try to learn from each other. i could understand and feel the same way if someone was actively preaching/marketing their ideology, but why act up if they are only sharing what they have to say in a place that is meant for discussion?

    ideas and cultures behave like organisms, am i wrong? they all try to spread and procreate. this can span from a simple trend to a political idea.
    and wouldnt the driving force of these ideas/cultures be intention/will?

    "information and practice "without value" - how fitting..."
    that was there because i did not want to add my methods of meditation and metaphysics. if people were curious they could get that information too.

    "just get real, grow up and stop being an infant pretending the bogeyman is luring under your bed, preventing you from getting up and make a fucking stand for yourself..."
    what are you talking about? i came up with an idea not a personal fear.

    ""agriculture spawned religion" - and you are living in an area where native americans roaming the plains without ever planting a seed waged war amongst each other for hundreds of years for the possession of "sacred grounds""
    i meant to say property. thats my mistake.

    im not going to get into a shit slinging contest with you.
     
  18. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    What the fuck are you babbling on about? o_O
     
  19. KillUncleSam

    KillUncleSamMember Forum Member


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    Two Questions to Theists from an Atheist

    Supposing for a moment that there is a god. . .

    1) What was his/her reason for creating the universe? What was the purpose of bringing into existence this thing that we know as the cosmos? Why did he/she do it? Boredom? Was it some kind of fucking art project?

    2) Why did he/she create the human species? What service are we to him/her? Did he/she just have some strong desire to be worshiped? If a god created the entire human species just so it could worship him/her, then that god has an extremely colossal ego problem and needs help.
     
  20. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Re: Two Questions to Theists from an Atheist

    You won't find many religious people around here. As an ex-christian I'm pretty sure they don't know the answer, too. But that's all what fate is about, believing in something without proof ( which I'm not saying is bad)


    Also I lol'd at the colossal ego part :lmao:
     
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