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Help Destroy God

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by SurgeryXdisaster, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    :ecouteurs:
     
  2. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    The god i believe in is like a personal higher power, that's all you need to know, i'm not one who tries to convert others to my beilefs, or use my beliefs to justify inane acts. I'm not interested in religion, I'm not interested in spreading 'the word'. if someone wants to know what I believe in they can ask and i'll share it, but i don't go up to strangers or try to save anyone.

    Comment's like everyone who believes in gos should die or whatever are absolute ignorance, and i think that way of thinking needs to be changed. Plenty of good has come from people who believe in god, and plenty of evil has come from people who don't. there is no pattern to good or evil, and assuming someone who believes in god is going to try and corrupt everyone else is absolute nonsense.

    I do realize athiesm is the common practice among anarchists, and as a minority, I don't try to but heads with anyone over the issue. so a little respect would be nice. Is all i'm saying.
     
  3. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You want respect? Stop believing in fairies and start acting like a rational human being.

    Sorry fella, the 'god i believe in is like a personal higher power' line is just childish hippy bullshit and has no place in grown-up anarchist thinking. I call out that shit whenever I smell it, especially if such woolly-minded thinking is associated with anyone who claims anarchist ideals. If I get an inkling that anyone has a hint of god-botherer about them then I'm not interested in anything else they've got to say about anything of any substance, because it is impossible to treat their thought processes with any credibility.

    I don't know if I like you or not, but I don't respect adults with imaginary friends.

    Recommended further reading:

    http://libcom.org/library/god-and-state-mikhail-bakunin
     
  4. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Whatever hater, you haven't walked in my shoes and no nothing about my life, so go ahead and make your childish assumptions. Go ahead and be fascist towards people who believe in god, and go ahead and only work towards anarchy with people who only believe in things your way, i just lost whatever respect i might have had for you too. Show me absolute proof that god doesn't exist and then maybe you condemning me for my beliefs will seem appropriate. I didn't force any thoughts on you, guess it's too much to expect to be treated as I treat others. I guess only athiests can believe in wanting no government??? You call me ignorant, i call you out just the same.

    You fucking claim to want equality, but only when it suits your own needs, you are a hipporcite if you preach tolerance, unity, equality, etc. Why is it that people feel a need to prove others wrong in matters without proof? I'm not talking shit on people who believe differently then i do, it sounds like you are the one who needs to grow the fuck up.
     
  5. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Hey, i do respect you and your believes, just finding christianity full of things that makes absolutely no sense. To me, that is. If it does however make sense to you, then i hope it's helpful to you the way my believes are to me. I really have a hard time understanding the whole concept of one god ruling everyones lives and then decideing if you go to heaven or hell. I don't belive in that. However, there are things i hold to be true that would not be agreed with by everyone eighter and i don't wish to force my believes upon anyone any more then i like to get other's believes forced upon myself.
    This is not an atheist or religious forum and could hardly be the place for a crusade.
     
  6. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    @ Anxiety69:

    I wondered how long it would be before Godwin's Law was invoked. Learn what fascism actually is before you go shooting it off as an insult at someone just because they mocked your fairytale comfort blanket. Talk about sensitive.

    And I didn't say that only atheists can call for no government (check out Islam), only that belief in superior mythical beings has no place in anarchist politics. Equality has nothing to do with it. Do I want equality for fascist principles? No. Do I want equality for homophobic practices? No. Do I want equality for 'higher power' beliefs? No. Because none of these ideas are equal to the ideas of freedom, science and reason.

    Hopefully, one day, you'll realise this and throw the false safety net away. Until then, I reserve the right to mercilessly mock you and your kind every time you think you can get away with defending your crackpot beliefs in any domain beyond your own head.
     
  7. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    whatever, go ahead and call me names and be childish, i'm sure people who read your mocking and insults can form their own opinions on you. Until i'm am shown 100% proof that god does not exist, and I don't mean theories, i will believe what I believe. I love how you equate believing in god to be the same as homophobia and fascism. I guess freedom is ok if all your friends agree, but but freedom isn't cool if it's of spirituality.

    I don't understand your thought that spirituality means no freedom, science or reason. That's a stereotype, and maybe i'm defensive because you are letting these stereotypes you believe in as an excuse to be insulting and belittleing.

    Oh and I love how my beliefs are crackpot, when you don't even know what they are.

    and yes i think you are thinking very much like a fascist if you say you want to wipe out spirituality. How does it hurt or impede on you?
     
  8. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah i wasn't singling you out, as far as christianity, i find it pretty bullshit for the most part too, but someone who believes in it and isn't imposing it on me is not my enemy, and I don't call them out as a crackpot. I just find it funny how quick we are on forums like this to say we believe in equality, and we hate racism and homophobia, but it seems ok to hate because someone believes in spirituality. If someone colud explain that to me in a rational way, please do so. I jsut don't get the genocidal minded hatred people seem to have towards it.
     
  9. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oh, i didn't think you were singling me out, still felt a need to clearify that i respect you, since others apparently don't. Thing is, i'm used to be ridiculed for my believes so i know the feeling. Though not christian, i am a spiritual being...
     
  10. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    To Anxiety: There is nothing at all wrong with what you believe, and I totally support you.

    To The Old Punk: Anarchy has no place for intolerance. Intolerance leads to hate, hate leads to fascism. There is nothing wrong with having something to believe in, as long as your beliefs don't have a negative impact on others, and as long as you are not forcing those beliefs upon someone else.

    For an anarchist society to work we must include everyone. Otherwise what do you plan to do to those who don't agree with you? Kill them? Imprison them? If your vision of an anarchist society doesn't include everyone it will never work. If you will show intolerance to those different than you, then what is the difference between you and the fascist?

    Anarchy=Equality=Unity=Peace that is the only equation that matters, and be must have all of those factors for it to work. "The Old Punk" you intolerance is appalling. And that mentality leads to fascism. I am not sure how you can even claim to be an anarchist and hold such an intolerant view.

    (I had a much better post originally but the site went down when I tried to post it, so hopefully this one is good enough)
     
  11. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Anxiety they aren't attacking you so time to stay stume, you have your beliefs and stay outta the thread(if possible), you don't understand why people don't like religion!?, how much have you read, seen, done or i might add others: ignore and talk amongst yaselves, godwin always take over the conversation and wats the point in arguing with brick walls when ya bulding or deconstructing.

    they have an answer for everything, its called dog, don't bother, just do.
     
  12. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Anarchy is built as much on intolerance as anything else - intolerence of fascism, intolerance of power, intolerance of inequality and, yes, intolerance of stupidity. Don't view intolerance as such a negative thing. Stupidity is far more dangerous, especially in the hands of an adult.

    There are some who I disagree with that I would have no problem killing or imprisoning, but when did I say I was gonna kill or imprison anyone for having this particular mental defect? I didn't. But I won't accept it as acceptable behaviour from anyone who claims allegiance to anarchist politics. If someone came up to me and said 'I want to tell you about my ideas for a new way of organising society oh, and by the way, just on a personal level, I also believe in Santa', I'd smile, move slowly away and hope that their carer was standing nearby.

    Anarchism isn't whatever you want it to be, no matter how much you may wish it to be so.
     
  13. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    there are religious anarchists but affiliated should be strongly denied but yea i mostly agree old punk.
     
  14. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Please don't equate the mocking you get for a belief choice with the genuine suffering of those born with the 'wrong' skin or sexuality. You have the luxury of rejecting your choices should you come to realise how dumb they are. That's a privilege that victims of racism and homophobia don't have.

    Mocking religion and spirituality is perfectly rational from an anarchist perspective. The concept of 'no gods, no masters' isn't an add-on option. It is fundamental to the liberation of humanity.
     
  15. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'd just like to ask theoldpunk: don't you belive in anything not scientifically proven?
     
  16. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    @ Anom:

    It's not even always about proof (at least at first), but it's about using the scientific method as one of the tools that helps build knowledge, understanding and, ultimately, change.

    Logic and reason are the other tools I rely on :)

    Anxiety69's assertion that I should prove there isn't a 'higher power' is as about as far removed from the principles behind these tools as it's possible to be. I refer you both to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn which explains it all far more eloquently and humourously than I can.
     
  17. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Not quite true, I was born into a jewish family more or less (my father is jewish) by common law, I may not be considered jewish, but i'm sure to Hitler it wouldn't matter, and he'd happily put me in a concentration camp. Stop assuming you know anything about me. Persecution is persecution, stop rationalizing it, you are being a biggot. Tell some one who believes in islam or buddhism that they have they "freedom" of not believing in god or whatever. It's not black and white like you make it out to be.

    I don't feel my spirituality is dumb thank you.
     
  18. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ok Asa, telling me to not post in threads now? I get it, u don't like me, so u feel a need to counter everything I say, but i think telling me i don't have a right to post my opinion is BS.
     
  19. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I am very disappointed in The Old Punk... one would think that your name would imply that with your age would come some wisdom. But no you are just as ignorant as the Christians that you seem to hate so much. Because someone believes in something does not make them crazy. Most people who claim to believe in a "God" (I hope I don't offend the Anxietist with this statement) simply believe that there is a higher power that makes the energy that makes the world go, and they call it God because it gives a personification to that power. You say that you believe in the Scientific Method correct? Well science can follow history back to the Big Bang, but no scientist can explain what happened, some feel that that power behind it is God, others like my self feel that it was just a great energy and choose not to give it a name, or others simply believe that science science can't explain it that it should just be ignored. What exactly caused life to happen, what caused the Universe to come into existence. Well I don't have an answer, but I do praise the earth because of it's relationship to the Sun which happens to give conditions for life to exist (oh so am I a lunatic too because I believe in the energy of Father Sun and Mother Earth?)

    Oh and is intolerance to intolerance really intolerance? If so then I concede that you are correct on that point. But I am sure you are not a fucking moron and understood what I meant. But where does YOUR intolerance stop, you hate those who believe in a God, so therefor you obviously support the holocaust since it was the mass murder of JEWS which is a fucking religion you dumbass. Did the Jews have a choice? Did they have a chance to repent and become non-Jewish before the Nazi's murdered them. How about the fact that Neo-nazis don't just kill people of different races but also of different religions.

    Your statements Old Punk are Nazi statements.

    If someones belief in God doesn't harm others, or persecute others, then why the is it wrong?

    So let me rephrase this: The only intolerance in anarchism is the intolerance of intolerance.
     
  20. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Anxiety69, does your god exist alongside all the other ones people claim to believe in? How does that work, when some of the other ones claim there is no god but them?

    You come into a thread entitled 'Help Destroy God', spout your crazy talk and then get the hump when it gets pulled apart? o_O
     
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