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Hello from Serbia

Discussion in 'New members introductions' started by Pankucnik, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. Pankucnik

    PankucnikExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Hello there, I am 19 years old, and live in Belgrade. Punk's been my favorite music for quite a while (both because of its energy, and the message it is generally spreading), and I deeply believe in the importance of spreading freedom and increasing consciousness. I don't consider myself an anarchist because I don't believe anarchy can exist in modern society (with all the rotten minds around us). However, as any other system can't function either (and we've seen them all fail, right?), I'll stick to "apolitical with anarchistic tendencies". I do like to keep an open mind, and listen to different opinions, which is why I registered here. I am interested to hear how would you imagine a modern anarchistic society, and what would be short-term and long-term means to achieve it. (No need to discuss it here tho, but it would be nice if someone could link any similar discussion... this forum looks kinda large).

    I like to listen to any good punk I get my hand on (from world-famous, ages-old, and very-likely-sold-out Sex Pistols, to small local bands that just started playing). Apart from that, I like to listen to almost everything else, classical music, blues, jazz, rock'n'roll, reggae, ska, celtic, and anything else made with love for music, rather than love for cash.

    My interests are also quite wide (I would say I am interested in everything, if only I knew what everything was ;) ), tho I spend most of my day playing guitar, bicycling, and hanging out with my friends.

    So, that is all I can think of about me right now. Nice to meet you.
     

  2. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    There's some interesting discussions going on at the moment, you might want to check those out. Just tag along with the new replies, that should get you started pretty quickly :)
    Welcome aboard and hope to see you get up to speed soon :)
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Belgrade sounds really cool, lots of anarchism actions recently !!

    welcome!
     
  4. Pankucnik

    PankucnikExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Yes, there seem to be a lot of anarchists around here, but I am afraid that the nationalist movement is way stronger here. And our nationalists are more or less the same as Nazis, having in mind they mostly talk about killing our neighbors, expanding our country, and protecting the war criminals...
     
  5. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 9, 2009
     
    A lot of anarchists? Define a lot? Is 10 or 20 a lot? What defines an anarchist? I have for the most part abandoned calling myself an anarchist, for many reasons... And what is an anarchist action? Seriously Ungovernable don't write about things you don't know or understand...
     
  6. Probe

    ProbeExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    welcome!
    :ecouteurs:
     
  7. Pankucnik

    PankucnikExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I said I wouldn't call myself an anarchist either, and I can't say I ever met one, but every time I get out of the house, I see a new :a: or some other graffiti scrawled around. So it at least *seems* we have some anarchists around. Tho I really don't remember them doing anything except that Greek embassy stuff a while ago.
     
  8. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Belgrade has a long tradition of graffiti all over the place, if it weren't for the occasional clean up there would be even more anarchy signs all over. In fact there are or at least used to be graffiti of every band you could think of from the usual Iron Maiden/Exploited stuff to Crass to band like Swans or Cocteau Twins all the way to Olho Seco and Japanese stuff... If you were to judge by the symbols written on the walls you would get the impression that Belgrade was overrun by satanists in the second half of the 90's, whic would be wrong, and the very real and correct impression that it is now overrun by Obraz and similar organisations.

    It takes only a few individuals with spray cans to write a whole lota graffiti. And the whole Greek embassy stuff is hopefully all in the past, because I still can't believe somebody thought that was a good idea...
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    wow and then you say i am "jumpy" ....

    ok first i have said that it SOUNDS like in other words it LOOKS LIKE there is a lot of action

    Secondly, when 6 anarchists from the CNT gets arrested and accusated of international terrorism, when the whole anarchist community from everywhere around the world mobilize to help them, when CNT members are being attacked by fascists, when some group called Black Ilija attack the belgrade ambassy, when anarchists in south america attack serbian ambassies in solidarity, when anarchists from over 30 different country protests to show their solidarity, when other anarchists are being arrested for distributing propaganda saying to liberate the belgrade 6, sorry but YES i call that "a lot of action"..... Maybe YOU are the one that don't know what he's talking about, trust me i have read a lot about serbia anarchosyndicalist movement and have followed the events very closely...

    Or maybe you are goint to tell me that events like that happens every months in serbia, so these storys aren't impressive, it isn't a lot of actions since it happens all the time, right ??


    Why do you have a circled A avatar if you don't call yourself an anarchist ??

    Seriously maybe you should inform yourself about whats going on in your country... There was over 200 people assisting to the trial of the 6 anarchists arrested for "international terrorism". There was so much public pressure that the judges were forced to free the belgrade 6 to let them prepare their defense outside of prison.


    Not a good idea ?? And then you critize the anarchists for doing nothing, but if they do something you still critize them.... ???
     
  10. Pankucnik

    PankucnikExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Circled A and peace sign represent my belief in freedom and peace. However I don't believe that anarchy can function (nor can any other system) in modern society, because there are simply too many evil people around who would take advantage of it, just like they are taking the advantage of capitalism now. That won't stop me from trying to spread the consciousness and good will, but I don't think that I can call myself a proper anarchist.

    As for being informed, I am. I know about the Belgrade six, and my only point is that it was the only thing I remember our anarchists doing in quite a while. And I am not sure if it was a good idea either. Throwing a molotov is more likely to bring the negative publicity for the anarchists, then to actually help spread awareness and sympathy for their Greek comrades.
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    The sign to represent freedom isn't a circled A. If you just believe in peace and freedom why not use a hippy sign or something ? When you use the anarchist symbols, it's far more than just believing in freedom and peace (except if you are a wannabe..)

    To me you just sound like one of the many persons who are just afraid of affirmating they are anarchists

    Your argument is kinda stupid... Yes there is evil persons who want to take advantage of anarchism, just like there were evil persons in all other anarchist revolutions of the history... But it still worked.

    Because some peoples want to take advantage of anarchism doesnt mean the anarchists will not defend themselves against those persons.

    And for the greek embassy, similar things were done in multiple other countries. This might not spread awarness for the "normal" people, but it is a direct message to other anarchists that some peoples are ready to take direct actions and it tells them to organize and take similar actions. Something little actions like that is the begginning of something bigger. Look what happenned, the state accusated them of international terrorism so at least they could prove that the state is fucking ridiculous and ready to silence the anarchist movement at all cost. It prove everyone how much they abuse of their power. And look at all the international solidarity that was created around these events. To me it is a great success.
    Most of the riots and spontanous events in the world always begin with small actions like that. There must be a beginning for all insurrection. And if you critize that there are no actions taken, then don't critize the ones trying to start those actions.

    You should show solidarity instead of apathy.
     
  12. Pankucnik

    PankucnikExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I am certainly not afraid to say that I am an anarchist, especially not on this forum. Anarchistic ideals are closer to me than any other ideologies, but I just don't consider them possible. Think of it this way: If there is no police, who will stop the people from killing each other? And if there is a police, it is not really an anarchy. (Just a simple paradox, but I think it proves the point).

    As for proving that our government is fucking ridiculous, you don't really need anarchists for that, it is doing that job quite well by itself ^^ And while I do agree that international reaction is a positive thing, throwing a molotov at an embassy is a violent act (even tho there was virtually no damage), and I do not approve one-sided violence. I suppose that's another reason I can't say I am an anarchist.
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    No the problem is not with anarchism, the problem is your understanding of anarchism. You obviously don't know much against anarchism. We debated this same subject over and over again on this forum, just search the forum or even better : start reading some anarchist litterature. Anarchism definatly doesnt means no order and no protection of the people against murderers

    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

    not even going to comment this...

    btw, violence against PROPRETY is not the same thing that violence against the people.

    Seriously, you have a LOT to learn. i don't even know where to start.

    I wonder how you would make an anarchist revolution without attacking anybody AND not attacking proprety...
     
  14. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ungovernable, have you ever met anyone of the "Belgrade six", or even seen them in person? I've been around for a while, I know some of them personally and I heard what they were talking before the whole embassy thing, and know what has been happening since... The real reasoning behind embassy action has nothing to do with solidarity and everything with publicity... The whole action was poorly planed (I'm not gonna say that was done so on purpose, but...) and badly executed, with real motives being rather selfish...

    To answer by quoting international crustie favorite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0

    Majority of people involved got involved because of the double standards displayed by the goovernment. There was only 18 euros worth of damage to the embassy, and they get charged with international terrorism. On the other hand godfearing christians burn down the U.S. embassy, one 18 year old dies, only ONE person gets charged with endangering public safety... And the whole campaign was kind of sureal, you have a guy talking shit about everyone and everything, bam he ends up in jail, and suddenly he is all that is talked about and focus of media attention and numerous actions. To add insult to injury the leader of the gang has a Greek passport, and a very bad (and apropriate) reputation among Greek anarchists...

    Just to add a simple fact, local CNT chapter has done more harm to Serbian anarchist movement than Combat 18...
     
  15. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Pozdrav iz sjebane ti susjedne drzave hrvatske.
    uzivaj,nadam se da ces nesto nauciti na forumu(ja bar jesam and i m proud of it)
     
  16. Pankucnik

    PankucnikExperienced Member Experienced member


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    That's why I came here, to learn.


    Ask people nicely? :D
     
  17. Bunny

    BunnyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    If it was that easy it would have happened already.
     
  18. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    +1 iz hrvatske :D
    naucit ce puno :p
     
  19. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Oh really, so there was no reason bhind the embassy attack, and it has nothing to do with international solidarity ? You should inform yourself before saying i don't know what i'm talking about

    "Anarchists" claim responsibility for attack on Greek embassy in Belgrade
    25/08/2009

    BELGRADE - A group of young men in Belgrade last night threw two Molotov cocktails at the Greek embassy building.

    No one was hurt in the incident. One window was broken, while the flames caused minor damage to the facade. The interior of the building was not affected by the fire. Eyewitnesses said that five men carried out the attack. Afterwards, they split in two groups: one walked away from the scene, "another caught a cab".

    On Tuesday afternoon, a group calling itself "Crni Ilija" (Black Ilija) announced it was taking responsibility for the attack.

    According to their statement, "the Belgrade anarchists" are demanding that Thodoros Iliopoulos be freed, adding that he was arrested “during a peoples uprising in Greece in December of last year”. The statement emailed to Belgrade media stated that Iliopoulos has been on a hunger strike for 46 days demanding to be released.

    They add that the "Belgrade anarchists" have decided to “join their comrades in Greece and the entire world, who are implementing actions of solidarity with Iliopoulos, and demanding that he be released”. “Because of this, members of our group attacked the Greek embassy in Belgrade with a Molotov cocktail. We will continue these activities until our comrade Iliopoulos is released,” the statement concludes.


    Holy shit, sorry but statements like that makes me puke. You might disagree with some kind of actions and beliefs, but it's still part of anarchism. Anarchists are supposed to be pluralists, which means they support all type of actions even if they disagree with some of them. Will you say that illegalists like Ricardo Flores Magon, Jacques Mesrine, Charlie Bauer, Emile Henry, E. Armand, etc.... has done more harm to the anarchist movement than nazis ??

    We had a couple of anarchists in quebec who burned cop cars at a police office, others who smashed banks, sabotaged car sellers, etc.... Some peoples disagree with their actions but no one makes retarded statements like that...

    In france there were a few anarchist kids arrested for the Tarmac events, not sure if you heard about it, but they sabotaged train rails and there was a lot of talk around them, until they were arrested by a big operation the anti-terrorist police. This is where the book "the comming insurrection" (l'insurrection qui vient) and the stuff from "the invisible comitee" is comming from, and it is now a fucking famous book among the anarchist movement. A lot of anarchist disagree with their actions, BUT ALL OF THEM ALWAYS SUPPORTED THEM AND ASKED FOR THEIR LIBERATION. This is called solidarity. The actions by the people who wrote this book (and the damage on anarchism movement) is easily comparable to Belgrade events.

    You should show solidarity with your comrades instead of fighting against them. Whatever they have done, anarchists political prisonners are your comrade and support from other anarchists should be expected.

    If you say that attacking an ambassy to show solidarity with anarchists from other countries is doing more harm to anarchist movement, it could apply to a lot of things.



    PS: maybe we should make a croatian forum ?
     
  20. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Interesting idea :D

    (sorry for that :p)