Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

Healthcare

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by morethanfights, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    577

    0

    5

    May 25, 2012
     
    what are you talking about? The US isn`t anarchist. I`m talking about how it is now, I thought you were too?
    If you were talking about healthcare in an uh anarchist community then I misunderstood.

    Besides, "tough"? Easy for you to say if your parents can afford your healthcare. And besides, you don`t know how you would really react if you got seriously ill. Thats a very typical attitude for people that have never experienced anything really serious in their lives.
     
  2. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,073

    3

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    Grippster, you're really starting to annoy me. You're sounding more and more like a fascist.
     
  3. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    532

    0

    0

    Jan 19, 2010
     
    I live in a country that should - according to what the media says here at least - have one of the most well-functioning healthcare systems, and honestly, I'm extremely happy for that. Doesn't cost anything, the doctors and nurses are dedicated, and in general, it's nice. And with my health history, I would have been dead or lying homeless in the street with my entire family somewhere now if I had lived in the US...

    That said, neo-liberalism has had it's impact... More and more are getting privatized, nurses are getting fired, you have to wait a long time for a cancer scanning etc., and the psychiatric is so overburdened, that if you aren't suicidal, they will often just send you home again. Furthermore, they just tend to give you pills, as they have too few man hours to deal with therapy and such.

    It's not that the health-system is bad, it's the money that are being cut for using in a stupid war or for lower taxes for the rich. So you can say, the only major issue with free healthcare is, that you end getting treatment that are only focused on saving your life, not preventing sickness and low life-quality if the state isn't willing to offer the necessary amount of money for it.

    But actually, as far as I've heard, the american system is more expensive for the taxpayers due to bureaucracy and loss of workforce and such. Can anyone verify that?
     
  4. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,073

    3

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
  5. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    532

    0

    0

    Jan 19, 2010
     
    Spike:
    True. It's horrible, and I'm wondering if the pharmaceutical companies aren't supporting it.
     
  6. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    577

    0

    5

    May 25, 2012
     
    They're supporting it because they see profit. My mom is a doctor and she has never let us(her kids) take any drugs. Not even painkillers. They do you more harm than good and should only be used short term and as a last resort.
    I think its disgusting that they're allowed to show commercials. In fact overuse of drugs makes treatment more difficult(at least in illnesses from parasites, bacteria or viruses). People chew antibiotics like they're tic-tacs and in return we get multi-resistant bacteria that isn't treatable.

    So healthcare is completely free in Denmark?
     
  7. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,073

    3

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    According to the info I've read, they're clearly covering it up
    And read this
     
  8. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    577

    0

    5

    May 25, 2012
     
    I saw a very good documentary on this a while back. I think its this one http://www.sprword.com/videos/bigbucks/ (http://www.veoh.com/watch/v1295461Dz3H5DAs if the link doesnt work). Not completely sure but the first site is excellent for documentaries anyway.
    I think its hilarious how drugs are pushed on you every-fucking-where. A friend of mine got a prescription for some lithium type drug and another anxiety suppressant after seeing a psychologist ONE time.
     
  9. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,073

    3

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    Yes I saw that one :thumbsup: They played it here on CTV which is a community tv station. They always have these interesting documentaries on, stuff they'd never show on national tv.
     
  10. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    532

    0

    0

    Jan 19, 2010
     
    ncipw:
    Yes, I've heard a lot of talk about it... And especially with the psychiatric system I've seen it. People being put on placebo pills - pills with no real effect, other than making you tired and numb. That's all. But well, the multi-resistant bacteria is luckily something doctors here are becoming aware of. Even if the system here is in no way perfect, I don't think the lobbyists for the pharmaceutical companies have as much power here as in the US. Though it's just my estimate.

    Healthcare is free, except the dentist still cost money. Apart from that, more and more people now - due to the lack of resources in the public hospitals after the cut-backs made by the neo-liberal, public management government...
     
  11. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    577

    0

    5

    May 25, 2012
     
    Oh yeah, I haven't experienced being force-fed on drugs by my doctor either, but psychologists tend to do that yes.
    Haha yeah thats not really a problem in Scandinavia, no. You cant get over the counter antibiotics in any of the countries as far as I know. Not here anyway.

    Oh I didn't know that. Its not completely free here for some obscure reason. Yeah they tried pulling the same here and it got downright dangerous. They merged a lot of smaller hospitals into bigger ones and now there is little to no coverage of emergency care in some areas of the country, meaning if you have a heart attack you will most likely be a vegetable if they even save you. Its really weird that they're actually prioritizing banks over workers. You'd think they'd profit from having a healthy long-living workforce.
     
  12. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,073

    3

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    Here in south africa healthcare service is really bad. Hospitals running out of drugs, equipment failing, they're overcrowded, understaffed and poorly managed. Although healthcare is free for HIV/Aids infected ppl and kids under 6 yrs old ther's a lack of health clinics. People have been turned away from hospitals because they can't afford to pay. The government's been "talking" about implementing free healthcare for the past 18 years but so very little has been done. And worst off are the people in the rural areas who sometimes have to travel for miles on foot to get to a clinic. If you're rich and can afford health insurance you're ok but if you're poor, which about 70% of the population is you're pretty much screwed.
    Also life expectancy for the poor is actually declining. Which is somewhere around 46 years.

    When you go to a clinic here to go see a doc to get a prescription you pay a minimal fee.
     
  13. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    532

    0

    0

    Jan 19, 2010
     
    ncipw:
    I have seen people being forcefed on drugs by doctors, but I think there's too much focus on the doctors - but way too little focus on the psychiatrist. Maybe because there's still some tabu on it, and people don't know how to deal with mental illness, so they just accept anything the professionals do.
    I do believe there's some lobbyism in Scandinavia, also from pharmaceutical companies, but I doubt that it's anywhere near the US. It's like they are not even trying to hide it in the US anymore.

    Strange, they did exactly the same here! Few, bigger "superhospitals" as they call it. Our former neo-liberal government made a "guarantee", that in a lot of illnesses, you should get a scanning, check or treatment within 4 weeks (like cancer, and such). That is of course fine, but while doing that, they said, that if the public system could not do this, you would get the treatment on a private hospital, which our public hospitals should pay for you. Only problem: the private hospitals took double pay for it, compared to the necessary amount of money needed in the public hospitals, so therefore, the public hospitals lost a lot of money, and ultimately got even longer waiting list and having to pay even more to the private sector. It was a horrible drain of resources. It has been somehow stopped now, but the hospitals still have major cutbacks as a result of it, and our best doctors etc. go to the private hospitals that now can offer better payment...
    Therefore, they try to make few, big public hospitals to have all the expertise assembled in one place. Denmark is a small country, so it's not too bad with transport time (you can get from one end of the country to the other in 6 hours), but it's still worse than what we had before.

    But yes - and actually the public system is cheaper for the state and the citizens, and saves the companies money. I've heard, that one of the main reasons is, that american companies have to compete for workforce through offering good health insurances - and the companies with the best insurances lobby that the system remain expensive, so they can attract good workforce cheaper.
    I've just heard it, anyone can verify?

    Spike:
    Sounds absolutely horrible. I actually thought South Africa was getting better on that point. I had my hopes at least.
     
  14. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,073

    3

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    The situation's starting to improve. Healthcare seems to be one of the government's key priorities now but it's taken a long time for this to happen. At the same time zuma is now building himself a villa for 248 million rand from taxpayers money haha.
     
  15. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    577

    0

    5

    May 25, 2012
     
    Of course theres still a lot of tabu around mental disorders, theres nothing glamorous about having one, and I know the psychiatric system is terrible. They either do too much or nothing at all, no one ever really gets any better. They just feed you sedatives until you're safe to go live on your own. Its a terrible bureaucratic system. Honestly, I think it would be a bigger punishment to put Breivik in a Norwegian mental institute than prison.

    Haha talk about shitting on your own doorstep. Thats right wing logic. But I guess the government didn't actually do anything to help the hospitals pay off those bills?
    Well they thought they would make the hospitals more efficient here as well, but they basically just hired a lot of people with zero to none education or knowledge about healthcare. So now they spend most of their time in meetings.
    I really don't get why they would change something that already worked. Cutting back money on healthcare is downright dangerous, but in the end its their loss.
    Transport was tricky to begin with here, but now there are cities that have no emergency care coverage, I mean a woman going into labor has to get picked up by a helicopter(they can refuse to pick her up if shes not in a stable condition). That actually happened once to my mom(not to her). There was this old man that had a tear in one of his major arteries and his blood pressure was going crazy. She asked for an ambulance or a helicopter so they could ship him off to a hospital that specializes in that kind of surgery but they said they wouldn't take him unless they stabilized his blood pressure(which they couldn't because they didn't have the equipment).

    HAHA. Thats obviously for the greater good.
     
  16. traqn dimitrov

    traqn dimitrovActive Member Forum Member


    32

    0

    0

    Mar 7, 2013
     
    i know i'm a bit late but where i live helth care is a bloody mess and yet it's probably beter than having to pay for all that shit
     
  17. Berserksteve

    BerserksteveMember Forum Member


    17

    0

    0

    May 10, 2011
     
    It seems almost everyone here is all for free healthcare but how would an anarchist society pull it off and organize it?
     
  18. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


    512

    0

    0

    Jul 21, 2012
     
    like with other kind of way of dealing with an anarchist society, firstly we need people who has the profession and the will to help organize such things-
     
  19. traqn dimitrov

    traqn dimitrovActive Member Forum Member


    32

    0

    0

    Mar 7, 2013
     
    i don't know stegs i live in a country were helthcare is pretty messed up and had my fair share of vets who you have to pay all by yourself and it made me think how expensive is helthcare
     
  20. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


    512

    0

    0

    Jul 21, 2012
     
    i livei n denmark where we don't have to pay for healthcare and it's free (not too long since it's going away), it's sad to here your story friend but in scandinavia the healthcare system is mostly free, it has taken a long time to get where we are now..but the capitalist crisis will somehow try fuck the welfare in denmark up..so we have to pay for healthcare..if we don't do something in my country.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - HealthcareForumDate
Sicko (Michael Moore) Healthcare SystemDocumentaries & MoviesMay 5, 2010
Socialist HealthcareGeneral political debatesMar 22, 2010