Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

Guns and anarchist society

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by ungovernable, May 16, 2010.

  1. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    931

    6

    66

    Dec 10, 2010
     
    Guns are the only way to bring down the system. It depends whos using the guns. The state doesn't want us to have guns so they can smash us and we can not fight back.
     
  2. LiveVeganStayVegan

    LiveVeganStayVeganActive Member Forum Member


    40

    0

    0

    Mar 22, 2011
     
    That is not entirely true. You have to be able to use all tools in the toolbox. Guns can be useful but if you don't train with them and cannot be safe with them, then it is all worthless. You cannot just grab ten thousand people hand them guns and march on D.C. That will accomplish nothing but probably a lot of people dead (many from friendly fire) and a lot of others in jail/prison. Cops and military train, they train hard and know how to use their weapons (for the most part) the average anarchist probably doesn't. Probably for most people the farthest they have gone is maybe a .22lr rifle at a camp and some video games or airsoft or firing gelatin balls at people (paintball). Not sufficient to foment insurrection or to take down the state. One must be fluent in rifles and pistols and safety and really learning a lot of tactics. Even if people knew firearms without more tactical training we would still be disadvantaged.

    Also drugs and alcohol, which are no part of any revolution but sadly exist and a good deal of radical folks use that stuff, are a major problem to firearms usage. When people aren't sober they are not able to make conscious decisions and if they are using firearms that can end very poorly. Safety is #1 always and if you cannot be safe with a firearm than you shouldn't use one.

    Training and diversity of tactics is really the only way to bring down the system. Not everyone is going to want to use a gun and not everyone is useful for direct actions but everyone would have a role to play.
     
  3. apples&onions

    apples&onionsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    234

    0

    0

    May 16, 2012
     
    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_UiEz5Uxs[/video]

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNJFq6VjHJI[/video]

    What it comes down to I think is what the mindset behind the brandishing of your weaponry is. If there is fear and paranoia or the intent to dominate behind it then that's probably not for the best. For the most part it is just that the wrong groups of people have the most guns.
     
  4. LiveVeganStayVegan

    LiveVeganStayVeganActive Member Forum Member


    40

    0

    0

    Mar 22, 2011
     

    True but sometimes you have to stop your opponent and sometimes that cannot come without some domination. Yes I don't want to dominate people but if it is too stop exploitation and stop an oppressive system I think it is fully justified.

    Obviously if you are collecting and using weapons because you believe in some sort of conspiracy or something typically to the right of the political spectrum as many people have done than yes that is wrong. However someone like myself owns and shoots because I enjoy shooting sports (so long as nobody gets hurt or killed meaning no hunting or anything like that) and I also believe in self defense. I think also it is an important skill to learn especially when going up against an enemy that uses firearms. Plus it can be a way in to talk with people. As a queer veganarchist I don't quite fit into their society but being able to discuss firearms and possibly bring people over to anarchism or some form of social consciousness is a good thing. It also can diffuse things with police or right wing types. They try and harass you and you change the subject on them and sort of mentally disarm them or at least let them know you are sort of on their level and don't do anything stupid.

    I will say this and I say it a lot and it is a hard thing to say but FIREARMS are bad they are horrible tools invented by a horrible species. If we truly had an anarchist society I would for sure want to get rid of guns. Yes I enjoy guns but if we actually had a working "utopian" society I would be glad to get rid of my guns and do other things. I don't need guns to live, I just enjoy them while I am here and learn things that are useful within the current society and structure. I don't think guns can really be used for any real good in a basically "utopian" society as many of us envision or want in the future. However we aren't there yet and we aren't even close and to say we can defeat our enemy with non-violence or without firearms would be a very naive thing for me to say. I used to be very anti-gun, very much on the side of non-violence all the time and learned more and read more and made a very conscious decision to change my beliefs in different ways.

    I am not knocking non-violence as a tool in our vast toolbox. It can be very useful but is not a solution just as violence is not a solution it is all part of our toolbox and we have to know how to use all of them to be successful!
     
  5. apples&onions

    apples&onionsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    234

    0

    0

    May 16, 2012
     
    Well of course. I was not talking about the domination of those that need to be dominated and I did not mean to imply the use of fire arms for purely self defensive purposes. I was refering to imperial, state and institutionalized domination.
     
  6. LiveVeganStayVegan

    LiveVeganStayVeganActive Member Forum Member


    40

    0

    0

    Mar 22, 2011
     

    Very sensible then : )

    I would have to fully agree as I am sure many people here would. Institutionalized violence is wrong, wrong wrong and wrong :ecouteurs:
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,326

    60

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 33 years old
    Canada Canada
     
  8. morethanfights

    morethanfightsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    282

    0

    0

    Aug 10, 2012
     
    i love guns. right now i have a s&w .38 snub nose, s&w .357, and a mossburg pistol grip tactical shotgun
     
  9. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    951

    0

    0

    Feb 21, 2010
     
    you must be proud :lmao:
     
  10. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    That barely counts as weaponry in the land of the free.
     
  11. everything

    everythingMember Forum Member


    11

    0

    0

    Sep 21, 2012
     
    2 points: If someone is going to murder someone, they obviously don't care about laws against murder or where you can or cannot carry a gun.

    And there are plenty of technologies that can be used to kill others. The focus should be on responsible use, not on banning the technology. Sometimes responsible use is no use, like with the nuclear bomb. But should we stop splitting atoms? Hell no.
     
  12. morethanfights

    morethanfightsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    282

    0

    0

    Aug 10, 2012
     
    haha yes i am proud, and in california its not that easy to get awesome fully automatic weapons, well it can be easy;)
     
  13. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    1,071

    4

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    I'm just going to jump in here. I've only read the first and last page of posts. Has anyone mentioned non-lethal weapons?
    With the technology at our disposal we could develop some highly effective non-lethal weapons. Yes I carry a knife on me but in addition I also carry pepper spray. If I were living in America I would also feel the need to carry something more powerful.
    But getting back to the topic, I could envision an anarchist society where the focus could be on these NLWs.
    A tazer for example, though still relatively "primitive" compared to its future potential will completely incapacitate you.
    There are crowd-control weapons being developed... :ecouteurs: :ecouteurs:
    Of course hunting rifles would still be necessary unless you want to hunt with a bow and arrow.
     
  14. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Spike, they're not 'non-lethal', they're 'less lethal' (than, say, shooting someone in the chest or head).
    There are numerous deaths attributed to both capsicum spray and tasers.
    Besides, why would everyone walk around packing weapons in your vision of an anarchist society?
     
  15. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    1,071

    4

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    How soon will this society come into effect? I'm talking hypothetically. By the time we actually live in a proper anarchist society I'm sure technology will have advanced quite a bit further. Producing real non-lethal weapons - laughing gas weapons...hell I don' t know. Besides, there will always be opportunist who will try to take advantage of a situation.
     
  16. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    I don't know, hopefully soon. However, I only mentioned a hypothetical future society due to yr claim:
    I generally don't think discussion about what, exactly, an anarchist society would look like is particularly useful.

    I'm not sure what sort of opportunists yr referring to though, insofar as the necessity of walking around armed is concerned.
     
  17. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    1,071

    4

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    No, I didn't make myself clear enough. I was actually referring to the posts discussing the stockpiling of weapons in case of some emergency. And of course there will always be opportunists, greedy people who will never be satisfied with what they have. I'm not suggesting everybody should be armed to the teeth, but we must still be vigilant (no, not vigilantes - vigilant ;) ). In a small community of like-minded ppl. this would be unnecessary but expand this community to the size of a country and things look a little different.
     
  18. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    I see, well you can never be too prepared for the Rapture or a zombie apocalypse.

    I guess its possible, perhaps pretty likely, that there'd be counter-revolutionary forces, particularly in the early days of a revolution. However, at the more banal level of day to day existence, I think it would be pretty unlikely someone would try and mug someone for their phone or whatever when everything is free.
     
  19. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    1,071

    4

    37

    Aug 14, 2012
     South Africa
    I guess there's still the rapists and murderers but I get your point.
     
  20. morethanfights

    morethanfightsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    282

    0

    0

    Aug 10, 2012
     
    i dont know about anyone else, but the reason i have guns is because i am a bit on the paranoid side and also the city i live in isnt the safest place. hhahaha it is a city where wild tweakers who have been up for two weeks will break into my house, rape my dog and steal all my shit. haha doesn't hurt to have some home defense
     
Loading...