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fuck facebook, twitter and google

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NOISEBOB, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    How does anarchism and corporate internet capitalist giant bastards blend?

    I just found this forum and I'm pretty sad to see it a) tell google my location and b) the share buttons to facepoop and twitter.

    Not very anarcho!

    :(
     

  2. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Maybe you should delete your account and get behind a firewall
     
  3. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    yeah, i know i could, but that's not my point...

    i just find it crazy that an anarcho-punk forum is so intertwined with these capitalistic monsters. i mean, it's like being vegan and eating at McD.

    i thought anarcho-punk was all about fighting the system and not playing by its rules. sure, i know facebook is a huge platform and 'everybody' is on it (and that is a huge problem, imo.. the surveillance state in full effect , really).

    facebook is a snitch and has blood on its dirty hands. UN: Facebook had a 'role' in Rohingya genocide

    richard stallman has collected a lot of reasons not to be used by facebook: Reasons not to use (i.e., be used by) Facebook

    Days since last facebook scandal

    *sad smiley*
     
  4. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    i don't mean to be so negative, but it just provokes me immensely and i hope you take it as constructive criticism.

    facebook clearly goes against the community charter and points of unity 3.1 and 3.3 as it's very capitalistic and very authoritarian.

    they work with the Atlantic Council - a pro-NATO lobby group. ie. pro-war.

    facebook is really fucking evil!
     
  5. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    You aren't the first person to bring up this issue trust me, but we view these platforms as tools, are the tools inherently evil in and of themselves, no. Are the people behind the tools evil, absolutely. Look at it like this, is mail inherently evil, are the States behind the global mail delivery system evil? In an armed insurrection, are the weapons themselves evil, or are the arms manufacturers and the capital behind them evil, and are we as anarchists prepared to manufacture the weapons necessary for an armed insurrection? We own this platform, we own the servers necessary to survive on the internet without interference. However in terms of class consciousness, not everybody that needs to be reached can afford their own personal computers and or mobile devices, or even understands every opsec measure that needs to be taken in order to be completely blacked out online. Thank you for your observations.
     
  6. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    Tools are not inherently dangerous, no, i agree. But using a tool (read: being used by a tool) that is inherently undemocratic and censorous, is.

    Facebook, google and twitter are all about making big $$$$ and collecting as much data as possible, and thus also polluting more.

    There are alternative tools that are decentralized and diy - like diaspora* and mastodon (they have a huge left wing following and even banned the fascists of gab.ai from federating with them).

    I don't get what you are saying about the global mail delivery system and the states. I could set up a mail server in my bedroom and encrypt it (for when sending it through the cables owned by various governments and corporations.

    At least you could make the share buttons smaller! :D

    Also, the hook up to google on this site makes it slower.

    It's a win-win to ditch those bastards.
     
  7. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    You completely glossed over my points on class consciousness I noticed. And I was speaking of mail as in physical mail, not virtual mail.
     
  8. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    yeah, i didn't quite get that part either.

    is it class conscious to be on a capitalistic platform, just because it has many users?

    what pops to my mind is facebooks nasty attempt at conquering the African, Asian and Latin American countries (digital colonialism, hurray!) by giving them free internet (limited to using only facebook, bing and no email).

    how is that for class consciousness?

    Facebook lures Africa with free internet - but what is the hidden cost?
    'It's digital colonialism': how Facebook's free internet service has failed its users
    Facebook’s Free Basics violates net neutrality and isn’t even that good, says report

    by not challenging facebook, we are letting them win the internet.

    :(
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Dude, almost every single anarcho-punk band listed on this website has a Facebook page and most uses gmail too. From Crass to Conflict and also Oi Polloi, Amebix. All of them. Name me your favorite anarcho-punk bands and I will show you their facebook pages.

    Maybe you are new to the anarcho-punk scene, but there is nothing unusual with this situation. Yes this sucks, but it's david vs goliath. We live in a capitalist world and capitalism is everywhere, a boycott isn't going to change anything, they still win and you still lose even more.

    We 100% understand the problem with capitalist corporations like Facebook, Google and Twitter. You don't have to explain this to us. But the users who will click on our "share on facebook" button or "login with google" are users who are already using Facebook and Google. We're not bringing new users to facebook - I don't think anyone will discover FB by coming on APN, but the opposite situation is very possible - a lot of people will discover APN by using Facebook and Google. Even yourself I'm pretty sure you discovered the forum by using Google Search, probably using a Google Chrome browser on Microsoft Windows.

    So all we're doing is providing means to APN users to connect with FB if they are using this platform, which means 95%+ of the ppl registered on this website. The rest of users who don't use these platforms will not click the FB buttons since it would be useless.

    I have no idea what you are talking about, this website doesn't tell google your location.

    It sucks that capitalist conglomerates dominate the internet, indeed. But would you rather let the world's poorest country without internet just because

    This is totally false, it takes like 1 milisecond to load the share buttons and the loading is asynchronous which means it won't slow the rest of the page no matter how long it takes to load.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  10. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    favorite anarcho-punks? i'd say Rudimentary Peni and Subhumans,,, they might have facebook pages and i find it hypocritical, if they do.


    nah, i've been into anarcho-stuff since my teens and am old enough to remember the pre-internet times.. people would find anarcho-punk in the 80's, 90's and 00's without facebook. i'd say the current situation IS unusual.


    but you know that David won the fight, right?


    you are maintaining the status quo and effectively helping them generate $$$ by feeding them data.


    no, i found you by using duckduckgo in a firefox browser on this one pirated OS that i am using.

    ..but it is still corporate logos on an ANARCHIST punk forum. how is that for hypocrisy?


    but it does... it knows your location when you sign up as says "powered by google" loud and clear.

    oh, c'mon. it's spitting them in the face to feed them a limited version of the internet. i'd like to see a revolution happen and poverty to vanish. facebook in africa is a continuation of the exploitation of africa.


    sure it does.. this site feeds google data on every click as it's connected to google analytics. also the google fonts used here slow it down. i'm just saying it could be way faster if it was 100% independent.
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Rudimentary Peni
    Subhumans U.K.
    Dick Lucas - Artist | Facebook

    How is this unusual when 90%+ of the scene is doing it?

    Did you even read my post?
    Users who will click the "share to facebook" buttons are already registered as facebook users and are already feeding them data even without anarcho-punk.net

    lol DuckDuckGo is a profitable capitalist corporation that makes a lot of money with advertising and affiliates. Oh and your pirates OS is still feeding data to Microsoft servers.
    Firefox recently had record revenue of 500 million USD. How is that anti-capitalist?
    Mozilla's record 2016 revenue funded its Firefox Quantum browser

    Riiight everyone is hypocrite except you of course, you are the king of anarchy. Want a medal?

    Please stop talking about shit you obviously don't understand anything about.
    We use Google Maps API to populate our dropdown box with a list of locations. It's not sending data to google, but google is sending us a list of city names. So when a user types his location, it will suggest city names as the user is typing.

    Again this is bullshit fake information, I tried to verify online and i've read a couple of articles, none of them say that they want to offer a limited version of the internet.
    So basically what you are saying is:
    - Don't give free internet to africa because it would be capitalist internet
    - Don't give free electricity to africa because it would be capitalist electricity
    - Don't give free schools to africa because it would be colonialist education
    So the africans can just stay poor forever until there is a revolution? This is stupid.

    Honestly why the fuck did you register on this forum if you think we are capitalist hypocrites? Did you register only to mansplain anarchism to us and critize everything?

    The tools used by this website aren't slowing it down at all, period. Stating otherwise is pure ignorance. I'm a professional web developer, this is my real life job so I have the experience to back up what I say.
     
  12. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    APN facilitates an easy way to feed the beast and that kinda sucks. you have the power not to.. oh, well.


    yeah, i know.. i should use searx.me more.. and lynx browser. and boot into linux more.


    no, thanks.. that wouldn't be very anarchistic of me. no gods, no masters and all....


    if that's the case, i suppose it could be done without google. you honestly don't think google saves valuable data like that?

    that's not at all what i am saying..

    i can post these three again:
    Facebook lures Africa with free internet - but what is the hidden cost?
    'It's digital colonialism': how Facebook's free internet service has failed its users
    Facebook’s Free Basics violates net neutrality and isn’t even that good, says report

    i like anarchist music and i play in a couple of anarcho-noise, i like the massive collection of music you have here.. no hatin'


    really? what about the google analytics part.. you really need that?
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    I have read the articles you posted. There is nothing saying that Facebook or Google wants to provide a "limited version of internet". There is no such thing as "limited internet" unless you have a state firewall like China. The articles you posted is saying that internet could be limited due to the internet service provider data limitation, which is exactly the same in North America and Europe. If you need more data for your mobile, then you have to pay for it. Nothing unusual here. Facebook isn't limiting the internet - they aren't internet service provider. But since the users have limited data for browsing the internet, Facebook provides a version of the web without images and other stuff that is heavy on data usage. This is exactly what is explained in the article you linked:
    So they are not "limiting the internet". The internet is already limited in africa because internet providers limit the data usage. Facebook found a way to solve this issue by providing a way to browse the internet without using too much data. It makes the internet more accessible, and not the opposite.

    As for Google Analytics, it is a tool used by most of the web developers in the world. It allows the developers to get alerted when errors are found on the website. There's also a ton of useful features to make the website faster, such as identifying slow pages and knowing the areas of the website that are used the most by the users.
    You can easily opt-out from Analytics here: Google Analytics Opt-out Browser Add-on Download Page
    Or you can download a plugin like NoScript or AdBlocker that will disable Analytics everywhere NoScript - JavaScript/Java/Flash blocker for a safer Firefox experience! - what is it? - InformAction
     
  14. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    ah, cool..

    thanks for clearing up that... i'm not a developer, as such. i just want anarchy and freedom (something that doesn't come with facebook and google).



    but



    if they were up for a philanthropic deed, they'd do it differently. they are in it for the $$$. exploiting some of the poorest people in the world. that is pretty sick, isn't it?


    ---
    edit to lighten up the mood of this whole thread:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Sorry if I sound too much defensive, sometimes we get newly registered members who come here just to troll or to make pissing contest of who gets the most anarchy points... At first, I thought you could be trolling, but after talking with you I doubt it is the case. I understand your concerns and your critiques of Facebook and Google are valid. I'm in an uncomfortable position here as I don't want to defend or promote FB/Google, but I am just explaining why we use them on this website. I'd rather live in a world where everyone uses different platforms and that we don't have to support connections with capitalist business, but unfortunately this isn't the case in 2019.

    Definitely. They are here only to get more users. Facebook and Google are publicly traded companies, and all that shareholders care about is growth, growth and more growth. I'm not denying that they are doing it for the money. In fact, if they couldn't make money by providing free internet to Africans, they wouldn't do it. Capitalist businesses are definitely not in for a philanthropic deed, especially with Zuckerberg who built a fake charity just to pay fewer taxes.

    This is a new technology. It reminds me when connected mobile devices first appeared like 15 years ago. Most of the internet websites were not optimized for mobile browsing, so it was impossible to use most of the web until the developers started supporting mobile devices with optimized version of their website supporting responsive layouts for mobiles.

    It will probably take another 10 or 15 years until most of the websites can be browsed in the "low-data" version. But once the technology is available, I assume some developers will release apps that can convert a normal website to the "low-data" version. Google is already developing a technology like this, called AMP Accelerated Mobile Pages - Wikipedia

    The profit-seeking nature of these technologies is bad. But the technology itself is good. Opening the internet to this part of the world is an important social progress. It allows the poorest people to get access to free education on the internet. It could even help them to learn about anarchism. Hell, even the Johnson-sponsored app isn't 100% bad. Remove Johnson from it and you are left with a very good product. We're talking about giving free medical advice to the part of the world with the HIGHEST child mortality rate. This app can literally save lives.
    The highest rates of child mortality are still in Sub-Saharan Africa—where 1 in 9 children dies before age five, more than 16 times the average for developed regions (1 in 152).

    Maybe this is "digital colonialism" but this is so much different than colonialism such as American oil companies building refineries in Africa to exploit the people living there with low wages and steal their natural resources making them even poorer.

    Let the capitalist businesses build the infrastructure, then we can seize it back during the revolution ;)
     
  16. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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    Really, you don't have to support connections with capitalist services like the three mentioned in the title of this thread, we have mastodon and diaspora* for instance.

    I don't want to repeat myself, but as diy and autonomy is such an integrated part of the anarcho punk movement, I feel it can't be stressed enough that playing by the rules set by these capitalists, is counter-productive.

    Don't be euro/anglo-centric, there's plenty of anarchism in africa - Anarchism in Africa - Wikipedia - they know.

    And maybe the child mortality rate wouldn't be so big if the western world hadn't fucked over the continent so much. An app from this johnson company is treating the symptom, not removing the cause.

    The nestlé baby milk scandal springs to my mind: Nestlé baby milk scandal has grown up but not gone away

    Oh, and the fact that Bill Gates want to sterilize people in Africa: Bill Gates, Africa and population control | Rasta Livewire
     
  17. NOISEBOB

    NOISEBOBMember Forum Member


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  18. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I took great interest in this forum when I saw the title of this thread, as I, too have some very huge problems with Facebook, Twitter, Google, and the internet, and technology in general. I'm proud to say that I do not have any accounts with Facebook, or Twitter, but I know some people who do and they will let me use their accounts to keep u on certain things going on in the world, but I don't take advantage of it that often, because I don't want to get my friends in trouble, or seem like I might be exploiting them. I also know a musician who is having a difficult time getting their music out to the general masses because they refuse to have a Facebook, or twitter account. Fuck, this person doesn't even have a cell phone, nor do they drive an automobile. I swear, unless one is adventurous enough to look under rocks and comb the gutters like the old timers used to do, this person's music is going to go unheard, and they will die a virtual unknown. That being said, this person would rather stick to their guns and die with their principles intact, than sell out to the system, live a lie, and think of themselves as a hypocrite contributing to the system they are trying to dismantle piece by piece.

    I really don't know what else to contribute to this thread, except to say, sadly, when I think of the internet, and social network sites like Facebook, et al, I am reminded of the following songs

    Evilspeak-Icons of Filth
    Progress-Flux of Pink Indians.
    (Bot have Facebook accounts, I'm sure, but maybe their message are reaching a much broader audience than otherwise if they didn't have these accounts. After all, unless you're willing to syphon gasoline/petrol, you're automobile isn't going to fill itself up, and you still have to give your hard earned cash to multi-millionaires with more than a pint of blood of innocent people on their hands)
     
  19. Charger Bullet

    Charger BulletActive Member Forum Member


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    Here's a short video on the evils of "social media" from two people that helped develop Facebook (I mean Fakebook). Remember when some used to warn about the dangers of television, calling it the "boob tube" that is the "drug of the nation" and how it rots your brain? "Social media" is much worse.

     
  20. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I haven't watched the video yet, but I dug the Disposable Heroes of hip-Hopcracy reference.
     
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