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Fuck AnCaps

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by JolleyPunk, Jun 3, 2016.

  1. JolleyPunk

    JolleyPunkActive Member Forum Member


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    Aug 5, 2015
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    I'm sure all of you have hear of these fuckers: Anarcho-Capitalists. I'm also sure you have all had to deal with them from time to time. I want to talk as anarchists about how we can disassociate from these stupid idiots. I can't tell you how many times I've looked up "anarchy" on google or whatever social media and been drenched in these stupid idiots. So, I'm hoping we can all brain storm ideas as to how we can separate ourselves as anarchist from these so called "anarchists". Ideas a-go!
     

  2. Sillysixpin

    SillysixpinActive Member Forum Member


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    May 11, 2016
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    So i understand that capitalism is a structured hierarchy that is against the whole point of anarchism, but wouldn't children need a parental hierarchy?
     
  3. Vulture

    VultureExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Mammals need parents, not hierarchy. Care and love are not hierarchical. The best way to disassociate yourself from ancaps is to a. Censor the internet, b. Kill them all or c. Not worry about the jack asses,, because we are all hypocrites.
     
  4. Havran

    HavranExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 22, 2012
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    I vote B :D
     
  5. anarchoyuppie

    anarchoyuppieNew Member New Member


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    Nov 10, 2015
     
    They already have disassociated from us pretty much. The only thing that I can see, going forward, is to call them what they are -- Right-wing libertarians. I prefer crypto-fascist myself, I notice a few of the so-called Ancaps (not "Anarcho-capitalists", which would imply they are anarchists at all, which they are not) have ended up on the far-right (like that Stefan Molyneux fuckbag.)

    So yeah, fuck them. They are easy to ignore, after a while it gets fairly easy to distinguish between their sites and actual anarchist sites.
     
  6. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    During the liberal fuckfest that was Occupy, I had an ancap kid try to explain to me why we should unite with him. I patiently countered with great detail why he was not an anarchist. Lster he came to me and asked for a cigarette...with a straight face I told him that I would sell him one for $7. He thought I was serious, I gave him one for free and explained a little more the difference between Mutual Aid and free market capitalism... :lmao:
     
  7. CroydonTouristOffice

    CroydonTouristOfficeMember Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2016
     United Kingdom
    Totally read the post title as "Fuck Anti-Caps." This makes a lot more sense.

    I knew a guy in college who was always talking about how the entire concept of government is against human nature. I always got on with the guy. We had a few debates about money, and he seemed adamant that some sort of fiscal hierarchy would always be necessary - which I found an odd juxtaposition, considering his otherwise anarchist attitude. This was years before I became aware of Free-market anarchism.

    I read up on it and, yeah, it seems to basically just be an extreme form of right-wing libertarianism. Founded on the principles of objectivism and other philosophies started by a woman who unfortunately never got proper treatment for her PTSD, following all the shit that she had to deal with when living in the Soviet Union, and ironically became a heroic icon for paranoid narcissists who think that everyone's trying to steal their brilliance.

    The whole thing seems ridiculous to me because corporate powers can often be even more domineering, more psychopathic, and more willing to stamp out individualism than governmental powers. People often ask why I'm not totally in favour of the whole "SMALL GOVERNMENT, NOW" approach, and it's because corporations and governments (as much as they love to suck each other off at any opportunity) restrict each others' powers.

    Government power is horrible. Corporate power is horrible. Give ALL the power to either one, and you land yourself in the exact same shit. Until we're prepared to get rid of both, we should keep them at each others' throats.

    Oh, and that anarcho-captialist I went to college with..

    ..he's a big fan of Donald Trump, now.
     
  8. ANNIHILATING ANGEL

    ANNIHILATING ANGELMember New Member


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    Oct 16, 2011
     
    I gather these delusional dickwads think that after we the proles 86 the corporate world order that they, the ancaps, can make out like bandits. One simple illusion, they forget that if the corporate order is torched, anything capitalist is going into the shithouse and up in flames. Just sayin, y,know.
     
  9. DickEvil

    DickEvilMember Forum Member


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    Sep 16, 2016
     
    They're libertarians that don't want to admit that they're libertarians.
     
  10. DickEvil

    DickEvilMember Forum Member


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    Sep 16, 2016
     
    I actually wrote a short story about a dude who was an Ancap/Libertarian type after the government collapsed and he had this huge PMC he hired. After they say they're leaving because he can't pay them he hands one of them a bar of gold and the dude just goes "What the fuck is this?" For some stupid reason they fail to realize that without a government to say that their money is worth anything then their money isn't worth anything whether it's gold or paper or jewels.
     
  11. ANNIHILATING ANGEL

    ANNIHILATING ANGELMember New Member


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    Oct 16, 2011
     
    Their $$$$ won't save their corrupt arses, their laws and hirelings will no longer exist and if they stick their capitalist scum heads out of the woodwork, we'll kick them squarely. Capitalist, do NOT let the sun set on you here..... :ecouteurs:
     
  12. DickEvil

    DickEvilMember Forum Member


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    Sep 16, 2016
     
    In government totalitarianism the death squads wear practical uniforms.

    In corporate totalitarianism the death squads wear fancy uniforms.
     
  13. Anarchowithoutcapitalism

    AnarchowithoutcapitalismMember New Member


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    What I think is unfortunate is the ancaps sometimes call themselves 'Free Market Anarchists' which totally ignores the fact there are several different types of free market anarchism that are also sociaists and therefore anarchists. Going back to Marx's Capital Volume 1 it is Surplus Value that makes a free market capitalist. If there is an anarchist free market without surplus value than the free market is socialist and therefore anarchist. What is surplus value? Here is an example: Say the going rate on a free market is 25 dollars an hour to create a machine part. Say an employer does not do any work but highers an employee to create the machine part and pays them 10 dollars an hour to create the machine part even though the the going rate is 25 dollars hour. The extra 15 dollars that should have gone to the employee goes to the employer that did not do any work yet the employer gained 15 dollars off the work of others. That is Surplus Value or exploitation. So it is not free markets or selling something at high prices and becoming rich that is capitalist (it is actually a form of socialism...read on), but rather the ability of an employer to extract surplus value and therefore becoming rich off the work of their employees which is capitalist. Free Markets like Individualist Anarchism and Mutualist Anarchism do not have surplus value so are forms of socialism (including Benjamin Tucker's Individualist Anarchism because even though he supported employers he thought the employers would actually do work as well and pay their employees the full value of their labor and hence no surplus value as he supported the Labor Theory of Value). So self employed individuals, co-operative businesses and employers that pay their employees the full value of their labor are all forms of market socialism. While I think people should believe in whatever they want, ancaps who call themselves 'Free Market Anarchists' are ignoring all these forms of Free Market Socialisms and should maybe call themslves instead 'Free Market Pro Surplus Value' because at least it would distinguish themselves. Any way Anarchism historically whether Free Market or not have always been Socialist and hence without Surplus Value.

    (Edit: I forgot to add that the term 'Libertarian' in the 1800's was first used as an alternative to Anarchism by Joseph Déjacque. Mostly for Libertarian Communism but Proudhon used the term for his Mutualism and Tucker used the term for his Individualist Anarchism as well. Later in the 1970's especially the term got confused with the term Libertarian to describe the economics of limited government Capitalism.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    punkmar77 likes this.
  14. Anarchowithoutcapitalism

    AnarchowithoutcapitalismMember New Member


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    Also forgot to add in my previous post that I hope the info I posted above was helpful for anyone who wanted to know more about the various forms of anarchist market socialisms and the differences between capitalist and non-capitalist free markets. For me personally when I was learning about the differences I initially thought capitalism was just about getting rich (atleast I thought so). But actually it was surplus value which distinguished capitalism from market socialism and for people who are interested I hope that was clear for others who are interested in better understanding the differences of capitalist and non-capitalist markets. In terms of seperating the anarchists and ancaps I really do think if ancaps used the term 'free market pro surplus value' it would distinguish ancaps from anarchism as anarchism is always without surplus value and therefore socialist whether free market or not as we all already know.
     
    punkmar77 likes this.
  15. dannyac16

    dannyac16New Member New Member


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    Nov 17, 2017
    Male, 18 years old
    Catalonia, Spain Spain
    "AnCaps" aren't anarchists, they're right libertarians. They're not anarchists for a simple reason: anarchists oppose any kind of power, what this people fight for is for the power of corporations, it's like some kind of radical liberalism.
    It's pretty stupid calling themselves "anarcho-capitalists". They're just idiots if they call themselves that.
     
    ungovernable and punkmar77 like this.
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