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Fort Hood....

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Cocytus, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. Harrison

    Harrison Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 11, 2009
     
    Was it noble when police tased and beat a legless man after throwing him to the ground from his wheelchair?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uftbIpgiN0

    Was it noble when they tased a young boy 19 times for jumping off a freeway overpass and breaking his spine?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpzn4ST0C9E

    Was it noble when they attacked and gassed students and workers alike at G20 in Seattle?

    How many of us have they killed, beaten and humiliated? They are fascists and they are the ENEMY. To believe that such a thing is in any way just is disgusting and I will never have respect for them or more importantly their authority. I won't have respect for anyone who kills simply because their master orders it.
    Fuck the pigs, fuck the country.
     
  2. Rabbit

    Rabbit Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 26, 2009
     
    You can't support the war maybe. But you can still support them as human beings. You can say that you oppose the war or the system without dehumanizing them. You can fight a system without killing people.

    You say it's weakness but it takes more courage to take abuse and refuse to respond in kind than it does to be an animal and hit back when you are struck.
     
  3. Spider

    Spider Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Sep 3, 2009
     
    I'd much rather be a martyr than a murderer. It would go a lot further towards a revolution.
     
  4. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_bone Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    Seriously dude, you're a jackass. Most of the people that go into the army are either lowerclass minorities or country bumpkin white boys. They do it to have a decent life. They go into these dangerous ass countries and are taught/brainwashed into taking orders and completing your mission. They see and have to do horrible things. Does it really surprise you that most of them are fucked in the head by the time theyre 1/3 through their tour?

    Do you have any idea how many veterans become alcoholics, drug addicts, homeless, forgotten etc.?

    You blaming soldiers for the atrocities of war is like you blaming illegal immigration on the immigrants and not those responsible for scam proofing our system.

    A major reason this happened were two of my biggest pet peeves. Firstly religious extremism. The second is the fact that everyone is so damn PC these days you cant even call out some psycho jihad motherfucker, even though he's been making insane statements (like justifying suicide bombing, and saying muslim law trumps the u.s. constitution) for years!

    This guy is a fucking asshole and gives Muslims a bad name. He bitches about being harassed, but they never seem to mention how openly anti american he was. I may not support the wars overseas, but it's very important to remember that the soldiers are the biggest victims of all (as far as americans go)...The government bribed them with tuition and money to raise a family, brainwashed/conditioned them, then had them fight an unjust/illegal war.

    Seriously consider what youre saying before you say it.
     
  5. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_bone Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    Oh and btw, you're everything that's wrong with action. Youthful energy channeled into the thrill of chaos instead of the process of revolution. Lets go smash the windows at starbucks brah...Yeah...Anarchy.
     
  6. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian Barbarian Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Guys, i think Dystopia.. again i love this fucking band, summed it up very nicely

    (and some of what i might say probably has already been said but)


    eduacation stable career
    join the army
    become a murderer
    kill for god and country
    return to be a hero
    to tell you the truth
    i hope you dont come back
    courage
    it takes a big man to push a button
    fight with your honor
    like shotting children
    and cutting their parents throats
    go to the frontline
    watch your friends
    get cooked by napalm
    and theyre murderers just like you
    getting education by killing people too
    bodies blown apart
    you feel a sharp pain in your stomach
    now youve lost both of your legs to a grenade
    blood and vomit spew from your mouth
    no career education
    and youre sent home in a doggy bag
    waste your life
    while taking others lives away from them
    left so empty
    just a pile of shit to me
    and your parents looking stupid
    their son reduced to a pile of shit and dog tags
    but he did what he was programmed to do
    such a good soldier
    i hope youre fucking proud of your son


    FUCK YOUR SON I HOPE HE FUCKING DIIIIEEEESSS

    (what i said but usually not listed in lyrics)

    May your body rot and burn alive and pay what you fight for
    Fuck all your flags, your ribbons and crosses
    America law, murder and die your justified

    I hope you die in battle
    Your no hero….
    Just a fuckin murderer….


    Fuck those troops they are NOT human, this song pretty much sums up 95 percent of the military. And to digress from them, they say they are protecting us? THEY CANT EVEN PROTECT THEMSELVES, FUCKIN 12 SOLDIERS WERE KILLED BEFORE THIS GUY WAS STOPPED. I live in the US and i fucking hate the troops, their all a bunch of assholes, aint human to me, fuck them, they would kill any of us just as easily as a "terrorist"

    oh and hitler, stalin, mussolini, glenn beck... their all human, but should their lives be spared? FUUUCKKK NOOO.

    Im not going to attack people who support them "as humans" but this is how i feel on the subject
     
  7. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 14, 2009
     
    World Burns to Death has one of the greatest lyrics, (and on the pointless fest 06 t shirt which rules)

    "Bloody rags in your body bags, Coffins Draped in Gaudy flags, A finely git wrapped package, for a young wife and child"

    Everyone is assaulted and bombarded from birth to believe that the USA is the greatest country, and we should support the military because theyre heros, just like were supposed to respect cops because they protect us?

    Bullshit.

    All Pawns of the state.

    And on a chessboard, what do pawns become if allowed to make it behind enemy lines?

    An even bigger threat than they already are.

    Take out the front lines first while you strategize against the defensive tactics.
    Only then can you take the evil kings down.
     
  8. oneleggedpunk

    oneleggedpunk Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 4, 2009
     
    Let's say those revolutions were ok, what followed? Three of the worse dictators Europe has seen.
    How did they get power? by force of arms.
    What am i trying to get at in a round about way is violence begets violence, the only way to truly change the world is through peaceful protest. Martin Luther King did'nt use violence and look what his movement achieved, one lone student standing in front of a tank in Tianamen square may not of changed China YET but the seeds have been planted. People may die in the pursiut of peace but more die in the pursuit of war.
     
  9. oneleggedpunk

    oneleggedpunk Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 4, 2009
     
    Should stupidity be a crime that carry's a death penalty?
     
  10. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    Wowza, you're really spouting the party line now.

    You do realize that Hitler came to power in 1933, Hungarian fascists in 1939, The Bolshies in October in their own counterrevolution, the Spanish anarchists lost a war to the very fucking people they rose up against (Franco) etc. Those were completely different things, not the revolutons. So your points are totally fucking irrelavent. In fact, if those dictators had been challenged with arms (didn't happen in hungary or Germany), things would have been different. But people like you ENABLE them to take power.

    MLK enacted reforms, nothing revolutionary. Even with that, the Voting Rights Act wasn't signed until after the Watts riots, because only then were politicians intimidated enough to sign it. You also do realize that black Self Defense Committiees (I may be messing up the name), which numbered about 10,000 all throughout the South, used VIOLENCE to protect blacks from lynchings. Of course you may just stand in front of the tree to stop them from lynching people, but who cares because you're white.

    Also, how the fuck were schools to be integrated without the threat of violence? It took the fucking National Guard deploying to get Wallace to let schools integrate, which is a threat of violence unless he let the schools integrate.

    The guy (he wasn't a student, he was shopping) who stood in front of the tank didn't stop shit from happening. You do realize that 10,000 people died that day? He didn't change shit, merely annoyed those doing it. If Tianamen managed to be bloodless because of people like that, it's be different, but he didn't change shit.

    This may help you:
    http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/3828/ ... Gelderloos
     
  11. Hex

    Hex Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 22, 2009
     
    i seriously did not want to get back into this debate.
    think another thread should be started to discuss this, but peaceful protest (in and of itself) has never brought about change. sorry. while everyone including myself would like it to be, it just isn't the case.

    "Gandhi is often given as an example of a pacifist achieving his goal, but Gandhi's success comes at the end of a hundred year struggle--often violent--for independence by the Indians. How far could Martin Luther King Jr have gone were it not for the African-Americans taking to the streets?"
    there are things "..that are worth fighting for, dying for, and killing for when other means of stopping the abuses have been exhausted, and that there exist those people who will not listen to reason, and who can be stopped no way other than through meeting their violence with your own."
    "Asking (ie demanding via peaceful protest), without the power to back it up, is begging." -Derrick Jensen
     
  12. Hex

    Hex Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 22, 2009
     
  13. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian Barbarian Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Who hear actually thinks that change will come about by standing on street corners with leaflets and blogging?
     
  14. Hex

    Hex Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 22, 2009
     
    willful ignorance already carries quite a heavy penalty.
     
  15. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChrist Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 1, 2009
     
    How many of you men have fought in a war?

    I agree most troops shuold really fucking THINK about what they are going to be doing which is fucking slaughtering people. Yet you people say they should be killed for doing something wrong...which is killing people for doing something wrong. So are any of you any better than the troops? And wahts wrong with peaceful protest? Who the fuck wants to join in or even just learn about the ideals of a violent douchebag?

    I'm not saying violence is wrong, when done through self defense. but just going up to someone and wanting to kill them?

    Anyway 13 of my relatives were hungarian freedom fighters, they hated and still hate fascism. Yes they through molotovs at tanks and burned down buildings, but every single one of them wished there could of been a peaceful protest. But there couldnt be. Violence is acceptable when needed, but if its not, cant you try peace?
     
  16. DrunkSquid

    DrunkSquid Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 11, 2009
     
    So what, is it better to do nothing at all? So you are quicker to criticize someone who does peaceful protest as opposed to someone doing nothing at all?
     
  17. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    Yes, of course, because the person doing nothing isn't self ritious about it. Nonviolence is simply mastubatory protest, it helps liberals feel all warm and fuzzy like they did something to stop something bad, then they go home and nothing changes outside their own worldview.

    I think I should clarify something. I'm not argueing for violence in every form of protest, I just recognize that there is always going to be a time and a place for violence and it is a tool that if we don't grasp, our opponants will (and have). Instead I'm arguing for a diversity of tactics, nothing has been changed by pure pacifism or pure violence, but noone here has EVER advocated simply pure violence without organization or mobilization, something that is nonviolent.
     
  18. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian Barbarian Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     

    Yes that is what im saying!!!!! Thanks for jumping to my conclusion so quickly!!!

    Im infact in support of the exact opposite of what you think i meant. Fail on your part
     
  19. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    The stupidity continues... Although due credit to OneLeg, Rabbit, Spider, and anybody else who is both intelligent and sane enough to realize this is total bullshit. I'm going to make an attempt in vain to bury this idiocy for good.
    Obviously, we know members of the military commit crimes, murder, and such. However, this is not a constant. First of all, a significant portion of military personnel don't even directly participate in battle. There are thousands of computer programmers, cooks, mechanics, engineers, doctors, and so forth. Even among combat personnel, storming through villages wantonly raping and pillaging is not the norm. The military is comprised of hundreds of thousands of individuals, you cannot essentially try and convict all of them collectively, you have to take individual cases one by one. You have to differentiate between the individual who takes it upon himself to rape and murder a civilian, and a bombadier who is given a target which he is told is an enemy encampment and compelled to fire under penalty of incarceration. These are not the same thing. In the second case it is the officer giving the orders who is most responsible. As I said, there are quite a few Hugh Thompsons in addition to the William Calley's. According to internal army studies most new recruits initially aim to miss when first introduced to combat, and of those that end up killing people in battle, the majority suffer psychologically afterwards to varying degrees. At Fort Hood there was about a suicide every month.These people are victims as well.
    Nobody is arguing that they support the war, the government, or the military. However, there is a substantial difference between opposing the war or the state, and hoping everyone even remotely connected to it dies horribly. I consider the state to be an illegitimate institution, but I don't go into paroxysms of glee at the thought of every federal employee including interns and secretaries and cheuffers brutally murdered. Admittedly, I wouldn't shed any tears for Donald Rumsfeld, or Henry Kissinger, or any soldier proven to have convicted war crimes. However, it is quite another thing to take it into ones' own hands, or encourage others to do so. Even in the worst cases, like Kissinger, whether he/they deserve/s it or not is not the only essential question. An equally essential question is; "Is this productive or in any way conducive to positive social change?" Your statements, and the actions you encourage are both alienating and ultimately self-defeating.
     
  20. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    Indeed but you must also be wary of pyschology or be forever doomed to a fate you could not see.
     
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