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Feminism, porn and sex workers : not a contradiction. A new documentary

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by ungovernable, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    yes, i agree with that - but as long as it happens between people i wouldn't call it "porn":
    taking this as kinda definition for porn i think it's like the usual commercial promise of satisfaction: pay and enjoy - but the promise remains unfulfilled because the real thing still happens only outside the porn media and only between real people.
    that's why i think porn is something very different/distinct from erotica, even if it's home made, because erotica is still dealing with individuality and personality - just compare erotic photography or private photos with standard porn and the shitload of stereotypes imminent to it... it isn't real - and satisfying?
    bit about the history of pornography in context with technology and market development:
    http://www.jahsonic.com/Pornography.html
     
  2. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    I can see what your saying, since you stated the difference between porn and what you call "erotica". I've just always called it home made porn.
     
  3. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I just spent about 30/45 minutes replying to this and my internet connection closed down and took it all away :'( . I'm sorry you're going to have to do with a much abridged version.

    1. I generally agree with your points of fault with feminism. I would also emphasise 'systemic oppression' over 'woman oppression'. It affects more people and bares on the other forms of oppression.
    2. However, I believe that oppressed groups in society need to have their oppression acknowledged and people need to enlighten themselves about how they treat others from 'different' backgrounds. This is where I think feminism has value - highlighting social oppression and those that are about relationships rather than the system. This obviously includes matters of race and sexuality as well but the 'woman question' is, in a fashion, a bigger one.
    3. Would like to know more about pre-history stuff, myself. Must confess a pretty shitty ignorance.
    4.My point with the the taking down of the PILF-site was not to say that the site didn't matter. I'm not bothered it was taken down, either. My question was to Ungovernable because I failed to understand why this site caused such a stir when, COMPARED TO PORN, it has much less potential to be involved in real physical exploitation and abuse. It's not the closing of the thread that intrigues me, I suppose it's it being closed by someone that happily 'uses porn'. This isn't to condemn or disapprove, by the way, I'm just interested.
     
  4. agungpratama82

    agungpratama82Member New Member


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    i love porn movie so much, i know porn movie has make amoral act in my country, but i think porn movie can make my burden go out of my mind :lmao:
     
  5. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    There's a difference in sexism and sexuality - propagandhi
     
  6. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    WHy do people HAVE to be whores anyway? Seriously?

    I'm not against porn or sexual art, but seriously why do people have to be whores? I mean seriously what kind of people would pay for sex, what kind of people are we really catering to that have to pay for a fucking blowjob?

    Are these really the type of people we should grow up around? And the women AND men ( because trust me I know a male prostitute) being trapped in prostitution because they or poor, or even trafficked out of their will?

    And even some porn is forced, the subjects aren't willing probably.

    I'm not going to glamorize a cheap marketing industry, cause that all it really is is buisiness. Porn 30 years ago was about revolution, it was more artistic, but then it went for sale.

    I like this porn though
    www.dirtydiaries.se/

    :D
     
  7. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ok to begin with, I was a sex worker and unashamedly so as well. I entered the line of work voluntarily. I am a cis-gendered (non-Trans) male. I never wanted to be "saved" from the work let alone pittied it is my body and it was my choice.

    I was never forced into Sex Work any more than I was forced into construction, hospitality or retail.

    Not every Sex Worker is coerced by pain of violence into the industry. There are many who take up the job because it may allow them to better provide for themselves and their families be they in a developed or developing nation.

    The issue of human trafficking is something that needs to be addressed and combatted however to throw all Sex Workers into the same category as trafficked people is not just illogical but it is also wrong and further stigmatises a group of people in this society.

    As soon as people start to treat the issue of Sex Workers' rights as a workers' rights issue (because it is), then we will make progress.


    My clients varied from men with money who were single to closeted or just could not form a relationship for whatever reason. They weren't evil sleazy men and I did have a say in who I would see and who I wouldn't because I worked for myself to ensure that nobody made money off my labour.

    Some Sex Workers have clients who are disabled and these clients are not able to go out and form sexual (or other) relationships with other people. You will find that there are many social workers and carers for people with disability who either actively negotiate visits from Sex Workers or turn a blind eye to it because they are mindful that sex is a basic need for human beings (if you think otherwise I refer you to Maslow).

    It is not a one sided issue and it is a legitimate line of work for many people. Coercion and oppression is bad in any workplace be it in the case of Sex Work, hospitality or even manufacturing.
     
  8. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I always considered being a prostitute, just thought it was too controversial to do so. Thanksfor your oppinion and experience, now I will look at it differently.
     
  9. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Tax receipts and sex workers: not a contradiction anymore:
     
  10. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sorry for posting in an old thread. I had fun reading this though.
    I`m sure most "femnazis" have good reasons to think the way they do(most likely personal ones). I think its slightly amusing when people freak out whenever someone is against porn or prostitution though, no ones gonna take yer porn or your right to post sleazy pictures of yourself on the web.
    I don`t believe its contradictory in any way, everyone should be allowed to do what they want as long as it doesn`t exceed others freedom. I don`t like prostitution because of all the various funny and dangerous STD`s that are around nowadays.

    I don`t know all prostitutes in the world(I actually know none), but I doubt there are that many prostitutes that are lucky enough to have chosen their work and view it as sexual liberation. I think a very small percentage of the worlds prostitutes actually chose their job. Taken the fact that most prostitutes in the world are forced into the business, I`m against it. The day people start selling sex because its considered a job equal to, say, being a carpenter, I will fully support it. I just can`t ignore human trafficking.

    I can`t take porn seriously, its never bothered me.
     
  11. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Against forced prostitution? Absolutely. But I fully support prostitutes who want do it out of their own free will. And if it were legalized, STD's would prob. be a thing of the past for prostitutes.
     
  12. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    That depends! There are std`s you can`t protect yourself against. If someone has HIV or AIDS and if it is very viral, you can get it even if you use protection. And honestly, I don`t see how they`re gonna be able to check their clients for those types of diseases.
    And this http://www.medicalsearch.com.au/Prostit ... ld/n/60097 happens pretty often.
     
  13. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah, those are some sick fucks (excuse the pun). I saw this guy on a talkshow once, he admitted to intentionally infecting people with AIDS and talked about it as if he was entitled to do so. Said he did it out of spite because someone had infected him with aids, all the while he had this big fat smirk on his face that you just want to smack.
    The sex workers would be able to get regular check-ups but you've got a point there!
    And when I said I fully support said prostitutes I meant morally, not monetarily (not yet anyway) :lmao:
     
  14. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It must be terrible to get infected by someone that does it deliberately, same goes for the ones that go nuts and start infecting others because they`re angry. Its no excuse though.

    Hahah, thats what I thought.
     
  15. Harrison

    HarrisonExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    sorry, really late to the thread buuuut......

    People who say that porn and sex work are unfeminist are fucking idiots who haven't done their research and have likely never talked to or read anything by someone who's involved in either.
    What they don't realize is that porn is actually oftentimes a vehicle for feminism. Porn can be very empowering for those involved, regardless of gender. It can focuse on sexual liberation which I think is one of the cornerstones of feminism and can be used to break down sexual barriers. Obviously this is not true of all porn. Mainstream porn may not feminist for the reason that it advances mainstream ideals of beauty and sexuality. But there's a lot of porn out there and a huge amount of it advances feminist ideology through sexual exploration and experimentation.

    Take BikeSmut for example - totally non-genderist and non-body type discriminatory. And it makes you bike aware.
    Or the Crash Pad Series (which everyone should check out). High production level porn completely run and structured by queer womyn.
    Or Indiepornrevolution, or Trouble Films etc etc etc. There's a lot of porn that functions through sexual liberation.

    To the doubting a-holes of which there don't seem to be many of on the thread:
    A lot of feminist porn stars have blogs or tumblirs and I would highly recommend reading them.
    Examples: Tina Horn, Bianca Stone, Syd Blakovich (who is the incarnation of badass), Lorelei Lee, Jiz Lee, Madison Young (who won a Feminist Porn Award for her work and duh that fucking exists), Poppy Cox, Rev Phil, etc etc.
    I would venture a guess that any of these individuals are more sexually and personally liberated than all the shaming feminazis combined. I've personally been involved with porn for a couple years and feel that the involved womyn I've met alone could back this up.

    Lorelei Lee on a specific pornography that was brought to court in an obscenity case and popular conception of porn:
    "The prevailing message women receive is that sexual aggression is unfeminine, that a woman’s primary sexual role is as regulator of male desire — to say yes or no, but not to pursue desires of our own. Women are still often taught that sexy is the same as “pretty,” that it means dressing a certain way and then waiting to be approached. These films show women being sexually aggressive and powerful in a way that sometimes isn’t pretty, but is definitely sexy.

    I’ve had very few experiences on porn sets that I would classify as “degrading.” I’ve had infinitely more degrading experiences as a waitress or a barista in a chain coffeeshop than I’ve ever had on set. That, of course, has everything to do with working conditions and nothing to do with what I’m actually doing as my job.

    I also don’t think you can take imagery out of context and say that it has inherent meaning — any interpretation of an image has to do with the social and cultural context in which it’s viewed. If we lived in a society in which women’s sexuality was celebrated, and was seen as usually proactive rather than usually passive, I don’t think people would jump so quickly to the concepts of exploitation and dehumanization when they thought of female performers."
     
  16. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    still not buying the sex worker thing though, but i`ve never thought porn was a problem.
    although i`ve never liked the suicide girls much. "real" girls? wtf. underpayed, retouched, pretty girls is not "real". besides, i don`t see any of them being any uglier than your average beauty.
    theres a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig difference between actual sexual liberation in porn and the shit you find on brazzers.
     
  17. zakkman666

    zakkman666Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I say if a woman wants to do porn she should have the right to do it.
     
  18. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    you know, mens sexuality is considered dirty, maybe it should be you out there posing nude.
     
  19. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I say if a man wants to work at McDonalds he should have the right to do it!

    FUCK WORK!

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DuoI4bQ07M[/video]
     
  20. zakkman666

    zakkman666Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I don't work myself.
     
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