favorite anarchistic philosopher

Ok, guess i missunderstood what you meant and i think you then understand why i thought it was fucking crazy
No, having the right to not get raped doesn't prevent anyone from getting raped so in that sense rights are useless but maybe it can at least let the victim feel what she/he was put through was really wrong and not at all her/his fault. Should be obvious but often the victims tend to blame themselves, mostly i think because society the way it is today so often puts the blame on the victim. When someone goes to the police and it gets to court, the judges so often say it was because the girl wore a too short skirt or because she didn't say no clearly enough, and the rapist can just walk out of there as if nothing has happened. If rights can't be good for nothing else, it's true that they don't keep us safe, they just might at least help the victim to not feel it is her/his fault.

Ok i was about to post this here but as i did ýour new post came up and so i can reply to that as well, since you couldn't wait to let me reply. I only assumed you had no such experience from what you wrote because it did not sound like it. Still if a friend of yours got raped that is sad for her but i still believe it can be a good thing for her to be able to know it was not her fault because the bastard who did it didn't havfe any right to do so. It didn't stop it from happening but as i said, the victims often get blamed and also blame themselves so if that right is nothing else it can be what keeps her from feeling it was her fault.

 

I know you misunderstood it, and that's completely fine, we all do that sometimes...but it is something that really shocks me in general here on a-p.net. How fucking quick people are to assume the worst and not the best in people, for instance why would you assume that I was saying rape was ok and not assume that you had obviously mis-read it. It's like people love finding fault in others and getting angry at somebody, when most of us here actually probably agree on at least 90% of the same things...It's interesting from a psychological point of view, but no need to go into that here.

Anyways, yeah it's definitely a huge problem the whole blaming the victim thing. Obviously, that's completely wrong and definitely something that regularly happens. I would rather say to someone that has been through something like that that they didn't "deserve" it, because rights indicates something else (at least for me) it's something that CANNOT under any circumstances be compromised, but obviously that's not the case unfortunately.
The self-blame is common for people who have gone through a lot of things, obviously not only rape. I've had plenty of things done to me and often still initially always blamed myself. This is also something very interesting from a psychological point of view, I think maybe that it gives people more of a sense of control in a horrible situation, if they believe it was THEIR own problem they can prevent it from happening again. It's almost like they give away that control if they admit that they did nothing wrong, and suddenly they feel more scared and more vulnerable again. (I'm sorry if this makes no sense it does to me, at least)
I'll put it like this, if a woman believes she was raped and it was her own fault because she drank too much (which is obviously wrong, it is always the perpetrators fault)...but if she believes that, she has given herself some control of the situation. She can now make the decision not to drink (maybe at all), and then she may well believe that she is safe again. Which is obviously not true, unfortunately.

 

Yes it's like that sometimes here but i think in this specific case it had a lot to do with the rest of the thread that has a very uneasy atmospehere about it, wich kinda makes at least me a bit more on edge so to speak when i read anything posted in it. You've read it so you might understand why this happens after a while.
To me to deserve it or not feels more like a karma thing and is not really the same thing but i think it all depends on what relations we have to the words, what we associate them with.
It does make sense to me too but as you say it is no real solution. If someone gets raped when being drunk she/he can quit drinking to feel safe. If she/he then again gets raped let's say in a park, she/he can stop going out. Then again if we look more closely at rapes, most occures in the victim's own home and where to go then? To create a false sense of security can only work for so long...
I have also blamed myself for things that has happened to me in the past, won't go into details here, but to me that was not very good. I couldn't talk about it with anyone since it was my own fault (in my mind) and i was hurting myself for so many years that way until i went to a therapist and for the first time got to talk about it without any blame at all.
I think it can give a feeling of control for a limited period but is just not a final solution.
Don't know, maybe i was just making this more confusing now...

 

Not at all I completely understand that and 100% agree with you.
It's very sad yet understandable why self-blame can often be the initial reaction.
I really do think deserve is a better way to describe it than rights (perhaps there is something better than deserve) but I personally still think rights can't be compromised...and if they can be then they don't really mean much.
On a different note, It's quite funny the way this thread is taking a completely different "route" yet again..

 

I hope we may now have steared it in a more positive direction

 

Let's hope so! You're right about this thread having had a bad a atmosphere.

 

It's amazing how this thread had such bad atmosphere it could actually get more cheery by discussing rape!

 

Yup it had hit an almighty low if that's what it takes to get it back to an okay atmosphere again. Hmm...I feel like I should say something else...

 

Actually Mr.Barbarian I wrote that in the middle of some large scale sabotage when I came home to change clothes, because as you point out so eloquently I AM an internet wanker....oh wait a minute no I'm not. If you want to annihilate fucking everybody because the human race has no redemption according to you why not start at home? I admit I was a little drunk and overdosed on adrenaline last night when I wrote that, which I'm sure you'll understand under the circumstances but as my caucasian brother maybe you and others on here don't feel the severity of state sponsored hate as severely as we browner skinned anarchists are on the western side of this peice 'o' land....I live in the same county as the #1 white supremacist in the Americas, Tom Metzger. Maybe youd be happy if I just gave up because hate will never end? Nope sorry can't do it..............

 

Anarcho-Fem I think 'rights' are simply aspirations and you are right to say they don't exist - we create them as philosophies of intent. We aspire towards human rights because it gives us an idea of the way we would like to see ourselves treated, and by extension everyone else.

 

Very well put! It'd be nice if that was the way people were treated.

 

Listen MR. MAR. I dont want you to stop what your doing. I never said that. But dont lump us all in there with not doing shit. I started a thread on here a long time ago about RRFM that i run where i am amongst other things!! I didnt tell you to give up, i was only saying that hate will never end. I mean i hate metzger too!

Just because im white and i agree with freedom of speech doesnt mean i havent faced an type of hatred, and trust me, i know the severity of it. Which is one major reason why im pretty anti-human. And being anti-human doesnt mean i dont fight for any cause thats going on today. And to start that at home (meaning kill myself) is for SUCKERS, why would i want to do that when humans will still live on after im dead? Though suicide has been contemplated (thanks for encouraging it!) Im just not gunna panic (or be sad,nervous, worried etc.) if their is nuclear war or a meteor hits the earth.

I know you and ungovernable disagree with me on freedom of speech (whihc is what the arguement evovled into) i dont care, thats fine, i wouldnt want you guys to be any other way . Surely you dont see me as the enemy though, and id be out there on the frontlines with you if i didnt live 1,000 miles away.

 

No...... No one here has said that we shouldn't kick the shit out of white nationalists... But beating them down because of their beliefs and beating them down because of them stating them are two entirely different acts..

 

^ I think I need to rephrase that. Really we should beat them for what they say because we realize how awful it is, rather then stopping them from saying it.

 

No ungovernable it isn't hypocrisy to state as fact that unfortunately Nazis will try and be Nazis, but we're gonna make it fucking hard for them.
That was definitely all dwtcos was saying (I'm still not entirely sure about NGNM).
And you're still yapping on about rights i notice...

 

Alright heres what I'm afraid of. And this is not an attack on you but just a wild and paranoid fantasy of mine.
WOOHOO! The revolution has occured!!!!! We have destroyed the state and capitalism!!! Party!!!!!

1. We destroy the free speech of nazis. Considerably the absolute worst scum on the planet, right? I mean we don't want them spreading their propaganda.
2. Well since we've destroyed their free speech the next logical step is to destroy the free speech of all far-right wingers, their assholes too, so how could it hurt?
3. Well now that all of the right fringe is gone we should destroy the free speech of the right of center folks. I mean, now that the right fringe is gone their ideals seem twice as bad!!!
4. Well now that the right of center is gone, who needs the center!!! Left or death is what I say!!!
5. Moderate left? More like white nationalists!!!! Am I right or am I right? Off with their hatespeech!!!
6. Far left (excluding anarchists of course), who needs them! Destroy their speech and write a dandy ballad about it to play on the speakers we've installed in all the factories!!

We've finally homogenized the human race guys!!!! Anarchism is the master idea and everyone has assimilated!!! We just needed to tape everyones mouths shut to let them know it!!!
Sounds dandy, right?

 

Now youre just being goofy, nobody would censure the far right thinkers because they are not associating themselves with a proven murderous entity such as National Socialism, this is the part none of you quite get, and by the way Rush Limbaugh uses that exact argument to say all the rediculous things he says about his opponents, so congratulations on that commonality.....