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Estonia: Harboring A Nazi War Criminal

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Sick Boy 77, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. Sick Boy 77

    Sick Boy 77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Mar 29, 2010
     

  2. Inna Ruts

    Inna RutsExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2011
     
    very difficult matter! especially the baltic-states still suffer severly from the political circumstances in europe previous to- and following the end of the 2nd world war.
    finnland, estonia, latvia and lithuania gained their indepency from the tsarist russian empire, prussia and the habsburg monarchy after the 1st world war 1918 and had to fight against german rightwing freikorps and soviet troops until 1920 - due to ethnic diversity the internal struggles of nation building hadn't ended when In june 1940, the soviet red army occupied all of the territory of estonia, latvia and lithuania, rigged elections followed in which only pro-communist candidates were allowed to run, the "elected" parliaments of the three countries formally "applied to join" the soviet union in august 1940 and were annexed into it as the estonian SSR, the latvian SSR and the lithuanian SSR. nationalists underground movements formed up against the soviet occupation but their resistance wasn't very effective, only finnland remained independent and allied in the late 1930's with nazi germany, fighting a winter war with the soviet red army still suffering from the losses of the great purges starting 1936 - so the finns kept the upper hand and the soviets became "the coloss standing on clay feet" in hitlers eyes: if we kick in the door the whole shaggy structure will fall...
    so nazi-germany attacked the soviet union in summer 1941, the german "blitz" simply overran the desorganized and badly led red army, freeing the ukraine and the baltic states from soviet repression, large parts of the population welcomed the german nazis as "liberators"...
    using anti-soviet ressentments and christian antisemitism the nazis blamed "the jews" for murder of anti-soviet nationalists and gpu-repression by the "jewish-bolshevic" russians - instigating pogromes with an unknown number of jewish victims. this "wild" initial phase settled down soon, but ten thousands of balts joined "auxiliary" police formations funded, equipped and led by germans to do the "dirty" part of the "race war" to terminate the jewish-bolsheviks... rounding up and terminating the jews within reach.
    many of these mass murderers were recruited to ss-formations or "einsatzgruppen", special nazi-units ordered to commit massacres like babi yar or "anti-partisan" operations in occupied russia, they also strengthened the "lager-ss" in the growing number of forced work- and termination camps outside the baltikum. their reputation amongst the germans was terrible, often lacking education and drunk on alcohol the balts in german service raged and rampaged like "rabid animals", often replacing german murderers after the endless mass executions began to weight heavy on what was left of "moral spirits" in german heads.
    some of these hired murderers became quite famous by now:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Linnas
    additionally: after the germans suffered serious losses in the war against the soviets, they began to recruit non-germans for special weapon-ss-formations under heinrich himmlers command. french, dutch, baltic and ukranian "aryan" men were brainwashed into the "european anti-bolshevik crusade" against jews and russians, again using christian prejudices, anti-communism and racism - these ss-formations became very effective, often fighting on despite heavy casuality rates and the predictable course of the war turning against the nazi germans. amongst the last defenders of berlin in april 1945 were the remains of french, ukrainian and baltic units fighting to the last bullet, the last "iron cross" of the war was given to a french anticommunist on 1st of may 1945...
    after the war most of the hired murderers went underground and vanished in the POW- and displaced persons camps organized by the victorious allied forces, many changed their identity and remained unidentified - but many were now recruited by us-services to serve in the beginning "cold war" against the eastern bloc - thanks to their "experience fighting communists".
    the balts started to resist the red army after the nazis were driven out by the soviets - now their groups and movements had the experience of the hired nazi-mercenaries and their weapons and the resistance became known as "the forest brothers" and fought on until the mid 50's - celebrated by nationalist and the us-led western "democratic" bloc as "patriots and resistance fighters" - despite the war crimes they had committed under nazi-command.
    of course this didn't helped the memory of the murdered jews or the fast vanishing "sense of guild" amongst the balts, the fact that large parts of the balts collaborated with the nazis was simply subverted, opening the door for a weird kind of nationalism and patriotic pride unable to deal with the facts of history - and after the holocaust wasn't really that important to the western democratic governments and the soviet leadership - the balts easily got away with that...
     
  3. Inna Ruts

    Inna RutsExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2011
     
    right, these veteran meetings are a annoyance everywhere the nazis recruited in the war, in france - where i come from - it's the ss-division "carlemagne", Legion of French Volunteers Against Bolshevism.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_Waffe ... _French%29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_ ... Bolshevism

    the petain-regime collaborated eagerly with nazis, french cops rounded up jews and roma, many of these victims were already fugitives from germany or poland seeking asyl, but the french authorities keeping them in concentrations camps and helped to deport them to auschwitz, while the petain milicia fought along with the gestapo and the security service SD against the resistance. also many refugees from the spanish revolution still living in guarded camps were arrested and given over to the SS, many were deported to concentration camps like belsen or ravensbruck and died there.

    a number of collaborators were shot 1945, often without trial after the gaullists retook the state and had to deal with the shame, that so many french cooperated openly with the nazis. many war criminals and nazi mercenaries managed to remain unidentified or took the chance to "redeem" themselves in the french foreign legion, fighting side by side with their old SS-comrades in the legion in french indochina against the vietnamese and laot nationalist communists.
    and the algerian independence war too got it's share of these murderers defending the christian okzident, eagerly using their anti-guerilla expertise against the FLN and killing 300 000 algerians.
     
  4. Sick Boy 77

    Sick Boy 77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Mar 29, 2010
     
    Here is America it's kinda down graded. They only want to tell us what the US did for the war and not really any other part of the history that went on during or the events that led up to WWII or anything that happened in Europe really. So much history and so little time. Well, I better start reading.
     
  5. Inna Ruts

    Inna RutsExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2011
     
    some days before i had a talk with a 94 years old veteran of the polish resistance "home army" - this guy even volunteered to go into Auschwitz to find out what's going on behind the barb wire fences.
    (it's a historical fact, he did enter the termination camp 1943 on orders of his resistance leaders and was supported to flee out of the camp again by the intern resistance group after writing a report about the genozid). he told me that roosevelt was personally informed by another polish emissary of the home army send to washington, roosevelt stated his solidarity and the respect of the US too and he promised to persecute the war criminals without mercy - but the americans did nothing, rosevelt died 1945.
    they had detailed plans of the termination camp and good air recon-pictures taken by planes too. but they
    never bombed the gas chambers or the rail way transport installation - only the industrial complex of nearby IG farben was attacked several times by the us-strategic bomber command trying to cripple the german war efford.
    later they gave some quite strange justification:
    we didn't wanted to give the nazis the advantage to claim that we fight especially for the jews by bombing the concentration camps...

    don't let your research drag you down, tomorrow i will visit Auschwitz with the old man - it's only some 40 km away and i'm already scared as hell...
     
  6. Inna Ruts

    Inna RutsExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2011
     
    if you're interested in german history of the first half of the 20th century the writings of Sebastian Haffner give a really good account, not too much detailed, but a healthy and very competent overview.
    what was the breeding ground for this strange esoteric supernationalism, who were the people spinning out the slogans and petty pseudo-philosophies, promoting aryan supremacy and old time anti-semitism.
    how the nazis became a murderous bunch of industry-funded saviours of the occident, which mistakes prominently the leftwing made, divided and in case of the communists - remote controlled by moscow - and how this strangely manyheaded swastika-monster appeared as a monolithic block steering it's body of 80 million scared and at the same time jubilant fellow travellers into the holocaust war.
    i don't know which of his writings is still avaliable in english, but if you need help to find them, just give a word.
     
  7. Sick Boy 77

    Sick Boy 77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    I will to look into Sebastian Haffner. Thanks for the name.
     
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