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Drinking & Driving

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bakica, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I had an debate in class about this topic, and i couldn't think of any way how can it work within anarchy. As there would be no police, and alchohol would be more or less 'legal', alcoholics will be able to do anything they want (of course there are some limits, but we can't wait for them to kill someone and then say what the limits are, or 'inprison' them). How are alcoholics (especially when driving) going to be handeld. I know it's not the most interesting topic to talk about, but I would like to hear some opinons. I, myself, think that we should have some sort of control in traffic (same goes for other examples like this one, I'm talking in general so don't hesitate talking about other topics connected with alcohol), but again that would be some kind of control which we don't like. Someone telling us not to drink ? But then again, if someone doesn't tell us to stop, we will commit murders.
     

  2. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    anyone who drinks and drives is a complete fucking asshole. no exceptions. responsibility (in this case, and many others i'm sure) is the key soultion to this problem, but it's achieving the solution that is the problem. education would be the first thing that comes into mind, but people don't give a fuck about that....kids learn that it's bad to drink and drive in high school, yet they still do it. then again, high school said alot of things are bad and i still do them. i think people have to understand that their actions, in this case drinking and driving, can be deadly to others: if they still go about doing it even with this in mind, perhaps they deserve whatever consequence they get....it's amazing what people will sacrafice for convenience....
     
  3. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Cars scare me. Grandma was killed by one. She herself never learned to drive, she was riding a bike.
    Fuck drinking and driving, though I am guilty of allowing my friends to do it from time to time....
     
  4. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'd say hopefully in an anarchist society, people wouldn't feel the need to drink as much, or drive as much. Pretty good question though. Cars hopefully wont be as "necessary" because mostly everything would be communal and local. As far as coming home from a bar or something. Not sure. A lot of people drink and drive because they can't afford to sleep somewhere other than their home (i.e. work/ school the next day) and also can't afford a taxi. Assuming in an anarchist society the stress of having to make it to school or work would be minimal if not gone, this opens up the idea of just staying put wherever there at. Also, I'm sure there'd be a free of charge taxi service, or at least more people willing to do things for no pay, assuming any sort of monetary system is abolished.
     
  5. nodz

    nodzExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Lost two mates through drink driving
    One driving the car and she wrapped herself around a lamp-post.
    One while walking down the street and a drunk driver ran him over.
    I think this issue is one of 'situationism' for want of a better word. It's the situation that you find yourself in through lack of planning. For instance after a work a mate says 'wanna come down the pub for a drink?' You accept and off you toddle to the pub, two pints later, you jump in the car and drive home, thinking nothing of the fact that you are over the limit and that your judgement is probably impaired. If you had perhaps planned this, the day before, the car could have been left at home, you could have arranged a lift from a friend/patner, arranged a taxi or caught public transport etc.
    I know that when I go to a gig and want a drink, the motorbike gets left at home and public tranport is the go. I know that the trains and buses also stop running after a time and so I know that at some point if I am late I will have to resign myself to walking.
     
  6. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 26, 2009
     
    drinking and driving is one situation where your freedom to do so would impact someone else's freedom to not get hit by a car, so it still shouldn't be allowed. I'm all for drinking and biking though. Only person you'll hurt on a bike drunk would be yourself.
     
  7. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2010
     
    I lived in a town in upstate NY for a while that had an arrangement between the bars and the local taxi company to drive intoxicated people home for free to keep them from driving. Maybe something like that, on a larger scale?
     
  8. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    35% of accidents
    Are cause by pixilated
    The other 65% are not
    Alcohol related
    What does this tell us
    About the drunk drivers
    They seem to have a
    Better record than
    the sober team
    -NOFX

    In all seriousness, i have no sympathy for drunk drivers, if they get arrested, good. Better that then hurting or killing someone or destroying their property.
     
  9. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 3, 2010
     
    Ultimately, we're all speculating big style when we're talking about anarchy but, I would argue that cars, essentially private transport, will be entirely replaced by bikes. Fossil fuels are quickly becoming a thing of the past. Longer travel will demand public transport - buses, trains or whatever. These will be run by people who will realise their responsibility to many people rather than having the selfish attitudes of drunk drivers. Therefore, drink-driving will, for a start, be replaced by drunk cycling - a far less dangerous, though still stupid activity. Furthermore, why will people need to go anywhere pissed anyway? My vision of anarchy emphasises localisation - it will be international but it won't involve people working miles away from where they live or anything like that - and localisation will mean that people will be able to pass out anywhere and still get to that work meeting, family dinner (though my anarchy will be less worried about family ties) or bah mitzvah (though it is unlikely to have many religious rituals either).
     
  10. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    hmm, I don't think people will agree with this, simply becouse they will be limited. In what way ? Well, they won't be able to go wherever they want, becouse the public tranport won't offer that much.

    Ok, so the main point is that people won't have to travel much, and if they do they will do it by bikes ? Ok, but then again - there comes a problem with aggresive attitude when people are drunk, and so on and so on, and we can't forbid drinks. Nowadays, people are trying not to couse accidents, but they are still happening. Like Axiety said, the only way is too "inprision" them and teach them a lesson - but what if they kill ? There's no need to teach them a lesson when someone's already dead
     
  11. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    without capitalism the mass production of private cars will decrease very much, private transport is one of the major reasons for pollution with heavy metals and other poisonous stuff - and most of the individual transport is absolutely wasteful because people can make the same way with public transport too, okay, public transport is still too expensive and laborious - at least now. most of it is profit orientated, so the service isn't that good in times with low demand, but that's nothing that can't be changed for the better.
    most serious accidents happen late at night at the weekend, when young people in rural areas travel far for mass entertainment, they drink and get tired - kaboom... their peers in the cities don't have that problem - and far fewer accidents because of the better public transport they can use.
    i think Caps is right with his anarchy, first because of the inevitable change in industrial production with less consumption goods - so there will be fewer private cars.
    the other point is the need for entertainment that could be satisfied with a multitude of meeting and event locations, organized and maintained by local comittees and groups with a special taste of music. so there is no need to travel far for a little fun.
    and i wonder what will become of alcohol in general in a less repressive society in the future, looking at the considerable economic damage it does in capitalism - it's a very expensive vent for frustration and anxiety.
    the whole orient lives without alcohol at all and at least the stuff necessary for beer production doesn't grow everywhere, maybe we all become homegrowers (and die on lung cancer...)
    i think it's necessary to pull them out of danger - too bad if they are dangerous for everybody else because they can't keep from the bottle if they have to drive. one of our neighbors is a professional driver, he was already caught a year before just for driving drunk, two months back he caused an accident with two people hurt lightly an was again well over the 0,0 promille limit - so the officials took away his drivers licence and he lost his job. bad for him, but he was stupid enough to risk an accident and even while i like him when he's sober - he is still defending "his" beers while working - so with a drivers licence he would be a risk for everybody... if they can't bear the responsibility, they can't be allowed to drive - in germany it's possible to loose the drivers licence too if you are caught riding a bike while drunk, because your're a road user too and the 0.0 limit applies to all.
     
  12. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Most of the accidents I have heard of happened in town. Young and irresbonsible drivers. You said that everything that will be needed will be in our community, but what about something thats specific for some countries like Greece (history, Ancient Greece etc.). I live near Greece, and if I want to go there, there won't be public tranport (when I want) and I defenetly won't ride a bike to Greece. I'm SxE, but I don't think I would be in anarcho-society. Alchohol offers fun, and with fun comes the responsibility, which when you're drunk you don't have. In my opinon, it's not necessary to stop the production of cars. It's just, people will understand that they don't need to go to "capital city" to buy something etc. If someone wants to have a car, let him have it (especially nowadays, when there are cars which are called "eco-cars". I think that they work on electricity power, so they will pollute less then these modern cars ). I don't think that everything that technology has to offer is bad. Some things can be made to work properly in harmony with nature.
     
  13. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    No, without capitalism, we can finally make cars that don't pollute and run on cleaner energy then gasoline because the big oil company fuckers will be dead or trying to restart their capitilistic ways somewhere else.
     
  14. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    No fun riding a bike in rain..or snow...or winter in general. Public transport won't take you everywhere. Not everyone in an anarchist society will be ok switching out their cars for bikes. I've heard of cars being fitted to run on vegetable oil, water etc. Hell you can pretty much run a car on anything, the oil industry just won't let it happen.

    As for alcohol in an anarchist society, if there's no business I see alcohol being mainly produced by individuals...present but not as prevalent. Alcohol related accidents/fatalities would go way down.
     
  15. Trust_In_Crust

    Trust_In_CrustMember New Member


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    Here's an idea: Bars being a short walk away from a place offering free boarding for the heavily inebriated. Before a person starts drinking (and there is no D.D.): The bartender makes the person hand over their keys and other valuables to avoid getting stolen or lost (Everything gets placed in a safe and hidden area), call their spouse, significant other, etc. and finish any other business that needs cleared. After all that's done, go nuts and let loose. When you get done, someone will walk the people to the designated crash pad, and numerous problems are avoided....There will be flaws with this, naturally, but people's lives are spared.

    If that isn't good enough, then here's another one: If someone on the street happens to come across a drunk driver, they flag them down until the sloshed motorist pulls onto the shoulder and stops. The sober driver gives the drunk a ride home, and in the morning the car will be retrieved. With anarchy set in motion, public fear will not be as bad since everyone has a say in the way things are run.

    One's responsibility will rise when they no longer have to rely on an outside force. In Anarchy, YOU enforce the law, YOU face the consequences, YOU are the one running things. This whole mentality that 'Someone else will fix this problem, so why should I worry?' will not fly when the 'blame' scapegoat becomes everyone.
     
  16. punkpenguin

    punkpenguinMember Forum Member


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    Apr 14, 2011
     
    How can you flag down a drunken driver? That's just suicide, they could easily ram right into you. Plus a drunk driver couldn't possibly pull up onto the shoulder and stop without causing some sort of accident. And what if the person who flags them down can't drive? Sorry I don't mean to nitpick at your suggestion, I just don't see it working :ecouteurs:
     
  17. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Uhm I've actually done exactly that before, so just because you can't conceive of it in your mind doesn't mean it isn't possible.
     
  18. punkpenguin

    punkpenguinMember Forum Member


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    You mean you've flagged down a drunk driver? How did you manage that? I suppose it's possible but it could be dangerous
     
  19. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I've never even thought about that. That's pretty awesome. I want to start doing that, maybe make a few people's nights, and possibly save some lives, and or medical expenses...
     
  20. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Life is dangerous
     
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