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Do feminazis exist ?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by ungovernable, May 17, 2010.

  1. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Yes, there is people who follow The Scum Manifesto. They are crazy! If they they did exterminate all males. They would kill billions of people, and thats not even possible. Why is it all the males fault for the worlds problems? Im a male and I want equal rights for women.
     
  2. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I stumbled onto this thread as it appeared in the similar threads section at the bottom of the page I was on. I've debated with myself for days on the wisdom, or otherwise, of giving it oxygen again. Obviously I'm throwing caution into the wind because the bigotry on display here by some members really put a flea up my arse. I make no apologies for this as said comments are in direct contravention of the sites charter [yes I've actually read it!]. The thread contains numerous sexist, ableist and bullying comments by people who one would presume, knew better.

    1- The word feminazi itself is a slur. It was coined to slander the entire feminist movement and women who stuck up or themselves. Its use should have no place on this site for that reason. It is sexist in and of itself. It is also intellectually lazy. The more correct term is Lesbian Separatism which is an extreme form of radical feminism [see Contemporary Feminist Thought by Hester Eisenstien published in 79/80]. Both Dworkin and Butler were Lesbian Separatists. Neither of them advocated the "genocide" of males. They simply wanted nothing to do with them. Butler lost her teaching gig for refusing to have males in her classes. Dworkin helped draft the anti-porn legislation in the States with McKinnon in the 80's that was overturned by the supreme court. They are profoundly sexist in their own way. Thus they are a minority sect, even among radical feminists.

    Here in oz, a lot of "wimmens" only spaces proliferated in the 70's. I recall walking into a pub where the only balls present were the ones on the pool table. I took my money elsewhere. There was also government funding for a womans surfboard at one point. But that sort of silliness had disappeared by the 80's. With the passing of anti-discrimination laws, gender exclusive spaces, be they male or female, met their demise. One batch of radicals took on an exclusive men only club and won. Only to have it rebound on them, with their lesbian club being required to open its doors to men. The mens club remained exclusive with membership restricted to the powerful i.e. politicians, the well heeled and the lesbian club is still a renowned lesbian haunt, although I could go there to get a drink or attend a music gig.

    That said, it was feminists who pushed for womens refuges for women and children who were subjected to domestic violence and rape crisis centres, both of which are still necessary to this day. And it is largely males, and not an insignificant minority of them as one writer in this thread stated, who are the perpetrators of these acts. Then there is the gender pay gap, the glass ceiling and unequal representation in politics to deal with. So the term feminazi in response to activism on these issues is sexist, period.

    2-The slandering of Solanis, or anyone else with controversial views as mental is an ableist slur that impacts on those of us who do have a mental illness. Mental illness should not automatically negate what a person says. Such comments reinforce the stigma that sufferers already have to contend with on a daily basis. Our testimony in courts is automatically discredited. Our legitimate complaints are belittled. Our worldviews are disregarded. And I've had a fucking gutful of it. For reasons that are nobodies business, I developed complex PTSD that was left untreated and developed into Bipolar and Anxiety disorders. Calling someone mental because you disagree with their views is like using the tard epithet. Unacceptable on a site that claims to be a safe space for all/

    3-As anarchists,one guiding principle is that our communities be non hierarchical and self governing. What are you going to do if an autonomous lesbian separatist community sets up shop? Declare war? Or let them sink or swim on their own merits? So long as they're not directing physical violence in your direction, there is fuck all excuse to interfere with them.

    4-As far as the manifesto itself goes, it was interesting. Interesting in the same way that reading Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin,Mao or the Khmer fucking Rouge is interesting. Ditto Locke, Mills and Aquinas. Just because you read this stuff, it doesn't mean you agree or support it. Reading it enables you to identify the tropes being used by the current batch of cleanskin, suit wearing fascists now for example. It is basic intellectual self defence FFS. Know your enemies.

    5- Porn has major consent problems. You cannot tell what consent was involved simply by watching it. You cannot tell if it has been produced with a modicum of ethics. It has been exploitative, it does lead to unrealistic attitudes towards sexual expression, it can be utterly degrading. Yes it can be empowering but that is usually restricted to more ethical, mainl female producers of porn, It also reduces men to their pricks. And then there's revenge porn being posted. If you lack the critical thinking ability to recognise these problems simply because it gets your dick hard, then you've got attitudes that you need to examine.

    6- the reduction of argument to sheer name calling by one user to another was simply bullying. Such behaviour should have been called out, regardless of who it was.It was and is plain unacceptable on a site that claims to be a safe space for all within the boundaries of the charter.

    Rant over.
     
    anarchodyke likes this.
  3. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    And people wonder why I'm an antisocial mysanthropic loner who just wants to be left alone with my own devices, and just wants to play music and make a God-Awful racket.

    I suppose the upside of this whole thread is now I don't have to do a google search for a PFD of The S.C.U.M. Manifesto.

    And if anybody is interested, (And why would you be?) my personal opinion is that Valerie Solanas was a drugged out nut job who tried to murder Andy Warhol, and that Andrea Dworkin was a prude who would've thrown Anais Nin in prison and charged her with obscenity for daring to write Delta of Venus, or Erica Jong for Fear of Flying. Camille Paglia made some good points, but she leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and Susan Faludi is just as bad as Kathleen Hannah used to be.

    It's quite obvious there are no easy answers and this problem is not going to go away, and/or be resolved overnight.
     
  4. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Solanis and Dworkin were deeply damaged individuals. Solanis's beef with Warhol was over her film script which he said he'd look at and promptly threw in the discard pile. He didn't bother to tell her anything i.e. it was junk, he wouldn't use it, thanks but no thanks etc, so after not hearing back from him for an extended period, Solanis shot him. He had behaved like an arrogant prick and didn't recognise Solanis's instability. He was wrapped up in his own ego and speed habit. He didn't deserve to get shot though. A punch in the face maybe but not attempted murder.

    Dworkin had suffered sexual violence from males in her childhood and as a sex worker. Hence the "all intercourse is rape" and "violence is the penis" stuff she wrote. She and McKinnon saw porn as education for rape, rape culture and violence against women. Given her personal background one can understand how Dworkin took the position she did. Like Butler her books were all the rage at one point but one rarely hears about them these days. I wonder if they are still in academic reading lists for Woman's Studies courses now-a-days.

    A liberal law philosopher, Ronald Dworkin [no relation] wrote a long essay critiquing the Dworkin/Mckinnon legislation. It raised some interesting points about porn in a liberal society as well as explaining the law in question. I can't remember the name of the book now, it was 30 years ago.

    Nin's Delta contains a couple of stories that would be regarded as child pornography these days. I read it in the 90's and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Probably not the best example to cite. Times have changed and I'm surprised that it's still in print with those stories.

    I don't know about Hannah, her politics or what she may have said, but I liked the Bikini Kill CD's I had back in the nineties. They were raw, powerful pieces of punk that said something from a woman's perspective. I was cool with that. Liz Phair's Exile from Guyville was a good disc as well.
     
  5. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    This might be an unfair comparison, but The Bible, after all these years remains in print, and the old testament is full of stories that could be considered child pornography. Take the stories of Noah, and Lot, for example.

    Kathleen Hannah would verbally bash male members of her audience during Bikini Kill's performances, and she would make statements like all men are potential rapists. She also had been known to be very rude to men who just wanted to say hello, and complement her on her show, thinking that any man who approached was trying to hit up on her.

    I still can't/don't understand how she ended up marrying one of The Beastie Boys.

    As much as I appreciate your comments, and feel they have merit, I still stand by my post if only for the mere fact and the mere fact alone that pointing fingers and playing the blame game doesn't solve anything, even though I'll admit to being guilty of that when I posted my comments.
     
  6. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Sorry you took my comments as criticism. I only meant to provide context. As far asHannah goes I figure she was young and dumb, as we all are at that age. As far as her marrying goes, she got a brain and grew up. You're right about the bible, it sucks. So do other so called sacred texts. Unfortunately we atheists are still a minority and believers would kill if we attempted to ban their books. Nin's Delta on the other hand could be published without the offending stories without the kerfuffle. I think people would be hard pressed to defend them on the basis of free speech or artistic integrity of the work. As far as the blame game goes, everybody does it, lt's the human condition.
     
  7. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I don't think I took your comments as criticism. Perhaps it was the tone of my response. I'm still stressed out about what happened at the open mike a few months back, and maybe is was unconsciously being self defensive. I merely said that I stand by what I posted, but also acknowledged that your comments had merit, as I felt you brought up some very good points.

    I apologize for any misunderstandings.
     
    1xAntifa likes this.
  8. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Simple misunderstandings on both our parts. I'd had a particularly bad night terror and was quite spooked when I responded [fuckin PTSD]. Not being able to smoke pot and chill doesn't help either. It's been and gone and went. It's all good.
     
  9. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Sorry to hear about all that. I don't think I'm quite going through the same thing, but my mother is in hospital recovering from surgery, so I'm feeling a bit stressed myself. Stay strong, and hang in there.
     
  10. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Best wishes to your mum and good self.
     
  11. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Thank you.Much appreciated. I went and visited her today. She's doing well, but bored out of her mind.
     
  12. anarchodyke

    anarchodykeMember Forum Member

    im just gonna say this cause i dont feel like reading this enitre thread, no feminazis dont exist, toxic forms of feminism do exists, such as terfs, or white feminism, but womens liberation is part of colective liberation and should be supported to the fullest extent possible
     
    1xAntifa likes this.
  13. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Hear Hear.
     

11 members have read this thread this month

  1. 1xAntifa
  2. CULTO DEL CARGO
  3. The Hat
  4. Red Menace
  5. NovaDecay
  6. Anonstoner
  7. Hent
  8. longnails
  9. anarchodyke
  10. Lurker_Rob_
  11. punkmar77
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