Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

Death Penalty

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by sludgefuck, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    5,452

    87

    621

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Are you somehow implying that the German state is better than the U$ state, because that would be ridiculous, they are both up to their necks in blood....?
     
  2. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,816

    0

    15

    Jun 21, 2010
     
    of course i don't and how could I - no state is better than any other, germany abolished the death penalty only after the nazis bloodbath and the unbelievable abuse of "justice" in the name of the state - at least this was achieved by reasonable people struggling for human rights.
    and of course this little act of reason still needs to be defended in germany - during the "german autumn" and the hunt for the RAF-members the reintroduction of the death penalty was promoted not only by the conservatives, even the social democrats "discussed" it during the mogadishu-crisis to prevent future hostage-taking - and the death of three of the "stammheim four" (baader, ensslin, raspe, irmgard möller survived severely injured) was most probably kind of a "informal" execution - the official version of events is so appalling disingenuous, especially after the "state security organs" had to admit that they eavedsdroped the prisoners all around the clock and that it would have been impossible that baader and raspe shot themselves in the head without beeing noticed by the guards.
    german anti-terror-cops still have the "right" to use the so-called final shot in hostage siturationa or terrorist attacks - RAF member wolfgang grams was the most prominent victim of this way to deal with terrorists - official version: he shot himself in the head... WIZO and Slime wrote songs about it.
    but at least Troy Davis would have lived over here, after wasting 20 years in prison and maybe a little re-socialisation - in case the cops wouldn't have shot him at taking him arrested as a copkiller, maybe it's ridiculous - but that's kind of a difference i don't complain about?!
     
  3. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    440

    0

    6

    Jun 19, 2011
     
    i'm still too pissed to say anything, but at least i'm not unhappy too that we don't have to deal with official, law-written and ridiculously justified state judical murder. fascists and murderers in the state organs aren't tolerable but at least our farce of a "constitution" reads in art. 102 g.g.:
    and it doesn't mean a thing if you're in serious trouble with the state, but at least they can't do it "clean" and officially:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    2,123

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Weren't there two states over yr way till the End of History? Like where one side was funding the RAF?
     
  5. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    440

    0

    6

    Jun 19, 2011
     
    end of history = 1989? as far as i remember the death penalty in the former german democratic republic was never abolished, executions for anti-socialist crimes, espionage, sabotage or conspiration against the socialist state followed the soviet example: "unexpected pot shot" in the back of the head - a strange special of the east germans was, that the public was never informed that someone who was condemned to death in one of the infamous show trials was actually executed, officially the victim died because of "heart failure" or something similiar., i guess the last one was a double agent in the early 80's in leipzig.
    extremely dangerous was the time from the end of the war 'till 1954 during which the german "ministry for state security" operated in order of the soviet occupation forces, over 1100 germans were sentenced to death for "counter-revolutionary crime", propaganda, espionage or "organising" (against the state) - and the "confessions" were very often achieved via torture and psychological pressure, allegedly 2200 east germans were executed in moscow, only some "ring leaders" of the workers uprising in berlin in june 1953 died in east germany. thanks to the east berlin state council far more people were executed for political "crimes" than for criminal deeds and there were quite a number of cases which couldn't be reconstructed after 1989, and the families of the victims were never informed about the true fate... socialist order! o_O
     
  6. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,816

    0

    15

    Jun 21, 2010
     
    some correction would be necessary, but I'm already a bit tired - so in short:
    the east-berlins state council abolished the death penalty only 1987 along with a general amnesty for political crimes - but yes, the last known execution was 1981 and untill the mid-60's the east germuns still beheaded via a guillotine already used under the nutzis, only after 1966 they started to shoot delinquents in the russian way, "casually" and without prior announcement, so the victim never knew when exactly his time was up, "it" often happened on the way from the cell to another interrogation - some say it spared the death candidates the usual panic counting the hours until... the majority of the death candidates were political prisoners.
    until 1954 (stalin died 1953) the east-germun security organs did only the first steps of the investigation, the arrest and the interrogations necessary to "categorize" the crime, after that the jurisdiction of the soviet occupation forces took over and finally executed the death warrant, torture was a standard procedure on both levels of the ordeal - the public trial was often just a show and the "confessions" couldn't be taken serious, this aspect was widely known and added to the horror of the farce, deterring many from deviating from the official party line, once the procedure has started, it hardly would stop before the ultimate end, there was no public control of the organs involved.
    How far the former DDR supported the RAF is still a mystery of the secret services, after 1989 many documents vanished and some might be still under an illegal lock of the federal intelligence service of the western part of germuney, but the "free" germans were always well orientated about who from the RAF actually took cover in the DDR, including their used aliases and local whereabouts - they were just pawns in the big game like large parts of the authoritarian german left too.
     
  7. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    440

    0

    6

    Jun 19, 2011
     
    sources, o tired source of knowledge and wisdom?
    i thought this one was only west-propaganda? :o
     
  8. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,816

    0

    15

    Jun 21, 2010
     
    according to the local expert on gruesome things the guillotine of the "landgericht am Münchner Platz" in dresden was hidden by the nazis shortly before the war ended in a flooded rock-quarry near Kamenz/Westlausitz - it was recovered, restaurated and brought back to use by the new regime in the central execution site in dresden and sometimes in the penitentiary of brandenburg in frankfurt (oder).
    from 1960 on all executions were done in the new central execution site in leipzig, arndtstrasse 48.
    the use of the guillotine ended around 1965/66.

    for the cooperation between the east-german MfS and the soviets (only in german):
    Arsenij Roginski, Jörg Rudolph, Frank Drauschke und Anne Kaminsky (Hrsg.):
    Erschossen in Moskau. Die deutschen Opfer des Stalinismus auf dem Moskauer Friedhof Donskoje 1950–1953, Metropol, Berlin 2005.
    (besprechung: http://www.factsandfiles.com/index.php?id=15)
     
  9. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


    936

    5

    66

    Dec 10, 2010
     
    I am 100% against the death penalty, I do not care who the criminal is, I will never support the death penalty. I don't believe in revenge. America is the home of wage slavery, I do not pledge allegiance to America.
     
  10. jarhead_fertilizer

    jarhead_fertilizerNew Member New Member


    1

    0

    0

    Nov 20, 2011
     
    Murder is always murder. Rehabilitation over punishment always.
     
  11. Sarmaister

    SarmaisterMember Forum Member


    12

    0

    0

    Aug 8, 2011
     
    instead of the death penalty i suggest long n hard forced labour for repeated violent offenders & bankerswindlers etc
     
  12. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,816

    0

    15

    Jun 21, 2010
     
    how clever, forced labour camps for sinti & roma too? i would suggest you're getting rid of that german cross in your avatar and keep your occupied redneck wisdom for yourself... prejudices against minorities and gulag fandom combined with a lack of knowledge aren't really popular around here.
     
  13. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


    936

    5

    66

    Dec 10, 2010
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Death PenaltyForumDate
Death penalty for gays in UgandaGeneral political debatesMay 10, 2011
Illinois abolish death penaltyGeneral political debatesMar 12, 2011
The death of gutter punk in America.General DiscussionDec 6, 2017
Death Stare - Death Stare (2014 - Canada)Anarcho-Punk music albums downloadsAug 23, 2017
Vulture Locust - Command Presence (new album out 3.3.15) [grind/death/thrash/crust]Music, punk scene & subculturesMar 1, 2015