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Dealing With Ignorance

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dwtcos, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 22, 2009
     
    I am currently being put through the filthy cesspool that is education and being the only "punk" let alone really the only "different" kid in a school with less than 600 kids and less then 150 in my grade is a weird experience in and of itself but to deal with the super conservative uber Christian population of my school, THAT makes my blood boil. Recnetly I have been dealing with someone who I disagree on almost every level with. I sit near this goon in two classes and have to deal with his anti-evolution rants anti-climate change rants and anti-leftist rants on a daily basis. He has consistently bothered me for my openly anti-religion pro gay rights and pro choice ideals to which I have combatted to the best of my abilities. But for some reason every single thing I say falls on deaf ears as though I'm screaming at a brick wall of ignorance. Yesterday I almost lost my shit about this. I was wearing a denim vest with an Amebix back patch with the small monicker of "no gods no masters" on the lower left hand corner and while sitting in Spanish class this idiot starts ranting about my fucking back patch! I said nothing to him! He starts going on about how my vest has "demonic imagery" to which I tell him "this has no demonic imagery on it, it's clearly a picture of a man and I don't even believe in demons." to which he responds "Do you know what Amebix is?" to which I jokingly repond "A killer band." to which he responds "A pagan ritual!" (I didn't know that and was glad to learn it q:) I then respond "Well a lot of things in our society have some pagan elements..Did you expect EVERY single pagan to give up there practices for Christianity all at once?" he then shrugs off the comment getting back to his work. 15 minutes later I hear this (he sits behind me) "You know your vest says 'no gods no masters' on it right?" to which I respond "Yes." to which he responds "What if I wore a shirt to school that said 'purge the atheists'" to which I respond "Well you wear shirts with biblical verses on them so I can say that the phrase no gods no masters is just as important to me as a biblical verse is to you." he shrugs it off again and later tells me he is going to wear a shirt that reads "purge the atheists" on it. The fucking audacity of this kid! I've never been in a fight in my life but I was about to throw a punch! I obviously don't plan on physically harassing him, but how do I deal with this kind of crap? how do you guys go about liberating minds in your daily life?
     

  2. Jimmy DeLocke

    Jimmy DeLockeMember Forum Member


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    Dec 5, 2009
     
    Don't be surprised by the "audacity". One thing I believe we should all be more realistic about is exactly that audacity. If you really want to liberate his mind, it has to be in a respectful way. You can't liberate people's minds anyway, all you can do is share information and help to connect the dots and maybe they really want to learn and change or maybe they just want to convince themselves that they're right(kinda like us sometimes). You have to take into account his beliefs and where he's coming from. Try to make connections with where people are already at and build from there. Attacking his views will only put him on the defense, just like you go on the defense when he attacks your views because your identity is wrapped up in this ideology, just like his. If your goal is to get through to him you have to set your ego aside in a big way. Otherwise don't waste your breath or brainpower thinking about it. Good luck.
     
  3. Arjay691

    Arjay691Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 11, 2009
     
    This kid sounds like a total jackass. Jimmy is right, but from what it sounds like, he's not going to listen to you anyway, so maybe it's just best to ignore him. I went to a school sorta like that, I actually had people wanting to kick my ass because I didn't believe in god and because I was a different. And sure, I'd defend myself when I had to, physically and verbally, but usually it's best to just blow it off. People are stupid as fuck, especially immature kids like that, and they're not going to wake up and realize until they grow up. So, yeah, just try to ignore that shit.
     
  4. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    I remember what it was like being the weird kid, and i know it's not easy. Just remember you're not the only one, and that no matter what, you wouldn't want to be like that moron. In the end you'll know way more about the world and who you are then he probably ever will.
    About the christianity vs paganism thing, the christians didn't really invent anything on their own, all their hollidays started as coverups for pagan sabaths, for instance christmas is very close to the winter solstice wich is a major pagan sabath celebrating that the light is returning and that the sun has won over the darkness, but it is also like a funeral for the darkness that is also celebrated as an important part of life. So, the 'birth of light', anything that sounds familiar..? :p And it's like this with all the christian hollidays. If the church couldn't make the pagans stop celebrating their old holidays, they came up with a new name for it and gradualy altered the celebrations.
     
  5. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 26, 2009
     
    Honestly just don't take the bastard seriously. Argue on his level. When I went to a very conservative high school I would do things just to get a rise out of the sycophants. For example, I used to wear a Chairman Mao shirt that said "Chairman Mao for one thousand years," even though I am not a communist, nor do I support Mao. You can say its pretty immature but I had a lot of fun. For example:
    Kid: Hey, isnt that guy a communist?
    Me: Yeah.
    Kid: So, are you like a communist?
    Me: Maybe.
    Kid: Are you serious or are you just fucking with me?
    Me: I guess you'll never know, huh?

    if all else fails, "God is dead" works wonders on ignorant cunts.
    Also, feel free to point out that Christianity comes from pagan influences. Concept of a "son of god"? Greek mythology (Hercules), Christmas? Celebration of winter solstice. God vs. the Devil? Stolen from Zoroastrianism.
    There are other good ways to fuck with Christcunts too, for example: Adam and Eve were the first people. They had two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain married a woman. Where did she come from?
    If God created the world according to the Bible, why doesn't it mention dinosaurs? Or did God create dinosaurs to fuck with us?
     
  6. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    Christmas as far as I know IS the winter solstice, the birth of Christ aligned with the three stars corresponds to the sun rising fully above the equator once again (on the Northern hemisphere at least). There are three days in the year where the sun doesn't fully rise above the equator, these are the days around Christmas. The three stars are the most prominent stars of Orion which point to the place where the sun rises fully above the equator once more.
    Also Christ himself holds many similarities with a multitude of other divine figures from different belief systems including, but not limited to Egyptian, Indian (as in from India), Norse, Greek and Roman pantheons.
    That aside...
    The dinosaurs supposedly died out during the Great Flood, as it purged the Earth of creatures that were too evil. In the next flood (if it comes) most carnivores will likewise be purged (according to a Seventh Day Adventist that gave me Bible study at my ex' place, but at least he was always honest enough to NOT use the 'God works in mysterious ways" argument and instead acknowledged he did not know everything).
    Going back to the topic at hand: there's a couple of options really... you try to ignore him, but you'll be pissed off most of the time. You beat the shit out of him and get blamed and get stuck with the repercussions. You go down to his level, how anarchy would be equality in all things, therefore there would be no need for someone to tell him how to live, including his God, this doesn't deny him the ability to worship his God, nor does it interfere with his Christianity in and of itself (a compromise if you will). Or you can goad him into starting more and more fights with you, until he snaps and hits you (after which it is self-defence to hit him).
    To me theres only one USEFUL option in there and guess which one it is...
     
  7. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    Technically the winter solstice, or Yule wich is the name of the pagan sabath, occurs 21st or 22nd december depending on astroligical circomstances, and christmas was earlier celebrated at the same date but has later been moved a couple of days due to changes in calendar systems. But yes, you definately could say it's the same thing. At least it's the sabath that has kept most of the celebrational ways. Santa of cause not being pagan :p but was originally a goatfaced man based on the pagan gon Cernunnos; the Horned One. It is also from him much of the ideas of what the 'devil' looks like is based. Todays santa comes from a coca cola special christmas design and was designed by a swede (makes me so proud. not.) that added the coca cola colours to a classic house elf and made him bigger in all ways.
    According to different teachings Jesus was born at different times of the year but nothing realy points to that if the person Jesus excisted he was born at the winter solstice. According to esoterism he was in that lifetime born in the astrological sign of saggitarius, and that was his last incarnation in physical human form, to later be taken up to a higher level of energy.
    Now i might have gone just a tiny bit off topic^^
     
  8. Hex

    HexExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 22, 2009
     
    a ton of great and thoughtful replies in this thread!!!

    on the topic of the Christian God, here is a pretty cool documentary about the goofy inconsistencies and the glaring links to paganism in that religion:
    The God Who Wasn't There
    http://www2.ldsfreedom.org/?q=node/24

    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
    When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand
    why I dismiss yours" -Stephen Roberts
     
  9. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 12, 2009
     
    I totally empathize with the feeling of being an apostate. Just remember that life gets better after high school and you'll always be able to hold your head high knowing you didn't compromise your principles to fit in with this crowd.

    As far as this kid goes, it sounds like you could learn something from him, even if it's not what he's trying to teach you. Do you often walk away from encounters with him feeling like you've "lost" in some way? I ask because he sounds like the type who can only validate the "rightness" of his own position by rhetorically dominating someone. I'm just trying to get a sense of how comfortable you are schooling this chump in these kinds of exchanges. If the answer is "not at all," you shouldn't feel ashamed by that. Do you want to interact with him or do you feel forced into it?
     
  10. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 22, 2009
     
    Well it's definitely a game of attack and deffense except I'm never attacking. I don't see him as a totally lost cause and any time I can make him feel like an ignoramus it's like I'm chipping back a layer of his ideals. And as far as having "lost" I feel like my arguements are consistently inconclusive with him. Both of us are totally convinced were correct in our arguements.Another problem is that i'm definitely the "Anti-PC" dickface kind of guy (this is the part of my response that cocytus roasts me for :D). I would never be mean to this kid right to his face because it's just not in my nature. I always want to appear to have some respect for where people are coming from no matter how furious there ideals make me.And I definitely want to interact with him. I don't believe he's totally immutable, I believe he's close minded and as a byproduct he won't let any new perspectives (an anti-authoritarian one for example) into his mindset. I've tried to use some of the anti-theistic logic that is commonly brought up by atheists simply don't work on these people.
     
  11. AnarcoPunk43

    AnarcoPunk43Member Forum Member


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    Feb 13, 2010
     
    Dude, we all have to deal with ignorance every day, this fckng society is controled, so it makes them ignorants, cause they support capitalism, racism, and in many countries even nazism, i dont know why they need this, for they the life is a competition, this completely sucks !
     
  12. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 22, 2009
     
    What i meant was "I'm definitely NOT the "Anti-PC" dickface kind of guy." just to clarify for any confuzzled beings reading my statement.
     
  13. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    you would be amazed at when you speak who it gets through too, those who maybe afraid to say it, don't endanger yaself if not nec but never be afraid to speak ya mind as it were, be cool, many of my school chums left their close minded circles and started lives of their own but i know that the ideas have stuck with them(anythings possible, even freedom without bias), they are still plebs but they are now amongst more ideas to share and hope believe in freedom.
     
  14. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    I have these problem too..but do you know which people do I hate more than this arogant bastards ? people in my class, my friends who are also in so called punk and they dont know shit about it. I asked them e.g whats punk they fuckin didt know..they are telling me something like "well..its an old music you know..umm.." fuck that! and I hate guys (also my so called friends) that think punk is fashion or I dont know music..its not fucking fashion or music it a way of life and then comes fashion and other shit. Also I had problems with nazi skins and some hooligans - they wanted to beat me becouse of my political slogans on my t shirts..but I somehow manage to save my ass ( I said somethink like "im just a kiddo :p") so they let me go..but I think they wont let me go next time. And about ignorant bastard that you talk about I dont know..try to ignore him if you cant you can always wear your vest :D and remember that this guy isnt guilty. we are all governments (or Gods :p ) childs and they do to us whatever they want and this poor guy was a victim of governments (in this case biblical ) lies.so fight against authority!
     
  15. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    yea school sux haha, hope u learn something, just do it yaself, fuck what others may think punk is, i've found all you can often do is givem resources, other than that its upta them but i guess a good discussion is often fun, i wore a uniform so i didn't have such a problem but i wouldn't have survived if i was out as it were, like i said sometimes it just takes time so ya don't always have ta be in peoples faces who then go on to see the battle not on idelogical grounds but just a good stoush, fight another day, have as much fun as possible, get watcha need and ignore as many dickheads as you can.

    thats what they mean by: ideas never die
     
  16. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    I know my school sucks..it sucked years ago too when I discovered punk..i think that school helped me..becouse I was so bored in it that I went googling around and I found something about punk..and thats how it started..as I said somewhere already..I came here becouse I want to learn, I want to hear others views on world and I want to find my self in this mess.
     
  17. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 29, 2009
     
    Alternatively if you want to be confrontational about it...bring him into the open and make some good strong points and make him look really fucking stupid in front of everybody else. That might shut him up...

    If he gets physical warn him if he continues then belt him one and tell him to fuck off.
     
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