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CONTINUATION OF DEBATE

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Anxiety69, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Moved here by request of moderators.

    thoreau_me_a_bone said "The ideas expressed by anxiety seemed to say that he would not tolerate people such as nazis or homophobes, which leads me to ask "so what would you do with them?". Whether or not his answer is "kill them", a large number of anarchists do believe that. I believe in the autonomy of anarchism, not the idea that "anarchy should rule". I dont expect the world would ever completely transist into anarchy (voluntarily)...and I actually wouldnt want it to."

    I never said anything specificly about killing anyone, you have taken my words out of context. I did say I would be ok with them having their own place to live and practivce as they wish, however, I also stated I don't believe they would be content with that and would want to spill over and oppress others. I do believe in giving a chance, but when that fails, then what?

    (this is in regards to nazis and facsists, not homophobes... they are just idiots who genrally are not violent, but if they become violent this might apply to them)

    I think it is nothing more then a pipe dream that any form of anarchy could occur without any violence what so ever. SureI am all for giving them a chance to do tehy're own thing elsewhere, but when it spills over and threatens those of us who refuse oppression, what do u suggest? U think words and "cleansing" will be a solution. I would be willing to give it a try, i guess, but after that fails, then what? You really think there could be peaceful coexistance between nazis and jews? KKK and blacks? Islamics and infidels? Anarchists and pro governmentalists? If so, I think you need to wake up. (or maybe I need to go back to sleep... I don't know exactly...)

    -the anxietist
     

  2. Spider

    SpiderExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Woah dude. Way to call 23% of the worlds inhabitants terrorists. I know you didn't use the word but it was fairly well implied. You gotta stop watching Fox news dude, there aint a muslim waiting around every corner with a bomb strapped to his chest. The reality is the radical minority of islam has performed maybe 3 attacks on the west since this war started (and whether they are actually to blame is debatable. before the taliban, afghanistan produced 67% of the worlds opium. When the taliban came into power this changed to 0%. Since the invasion this has rocketed up to 98%. makes you wonder what the real imperative of the invading forces was) where as we have performed thousands of brutal attacks on innocent civilians, particularly with sentinels from the comfort of a viewing area, and this has been happening since long before the official "war" began so i think it's safe to say the war on islam is more to do with the area of the earth thast they inhabit, than the evil way the media portrays them. (I am an antitheist but there are lots of lovely muslims i have met who I would hate to see suffer from the mad will of governments with too much power sponsored by corporates with more.)
     
  3. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Whoah, way to put words in my mouth dude :) I was NOT implying terrorism, nor was that even a thought when I posted that. My point was merely mentioning groups that oppose each other. my post was not an attempt at attacking Islam, Muslims or any such thing, you obviously missed my point entirely. And For the record, I do not watch ANY news. I read it on the web, with a very weary eye for the biases presented. I stay away from far left and far right sources so I can draw my own conclusions. You also completely missed the point of what I was talking about. I didn't even imply anything about terrorism. Next time don't jump to conclusions.

    -the anxietist
     
  4. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Let me clarify incase you havent caught this yet, but my beliefs fall much more in line with free market anarchism, "big L" Libertarianism and general individualist anarchism. So first off, I absolutely believe that everyone should be able to start their own segregated areas if they choose. People act like other societies couldnt function in a free market setting, which I dont believe to be true. The Nazis (or whoever else) may try to take over your area too, but this is when violence is okay (i.e. in defense of your freedom or life). And isnt this also sort of a sign that the whole "property is theft" thing is a little bunk? Not that we're talking about individual property, but if a bunch of fascists tried to take over you would probably defend "your land".

    But I'm straying from the point...What I was going to say is that I understand that some sort of violence is innevitable. Murray Rothbard said the only just war in the U.S. was the American Revolution. Im not opposed to physically defending freedom, but smashing windows and lighting trashcans on fire is not going to do anything except set us back.
     
  5. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Okay now it explains everything. EW.

    i don't have time to waste on this... maybe i'll argue later.
     
  6. Spider

    SpiderExperienced Member Experienced member


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    dude not to push the issue or nothing, but you said "Islamics and infidels" Implyiing the same us and them bullshit the cons are trying to brainwash us with.

    Just sayin'.
     
  7. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Yes, don't waste your time with an Ancap! Cause remember - if Noam Chomsky doesn't like us, you're not allowed to either.

    I just happen to adheer to a more American idea of freedom (as opposed to the idea that Liberty is not the ultimate goal) ...And I realize that not everyone is a factory worker...I like to focus on the issues at hand, not industrial era problems. But this is off topic anyways.
     
  8. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    ok MR. PC Policeman:) Just a s I was slammed for saying that PUSSY is a word which is sexist, you are implying I referred to islamics as terrorists. Point made, but you won't change why I used that as an example. (and I do not think in general they are terrorists, but again that is off topic... but hey, this thread can be as unfocused as the moderators will allow...) So if u want to challenge my un-pc linguistics, feel free...

    -the anxietist
     
  9. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChristExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 1, 2009
     
    Damn, this isn't even a debate. It's more like an argument and people just taking shit out of context. Can't we be intellectual? I'm not saying people don't do this, but more often than not, they do.
     
  10. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 9, 2009
     
    Ok, the debate from the last thread is supposed to continue here...

    To answer to thoreau_me_a_bone... I consider something that might be an anarchist future as a network of smaller communities, the current society is on a path to self destruction and I feel it will happen in the next 20 to 50 years. The big cities will be a thing of the past. In creating a new society I would like to form a community with like minded individuals, that concept doesn't exclude people outside of this community forming their own society based on their beliefs. I would not have anything against them as long as they don't try to take over what we have.

    So I don't necessarily feel that converting everybody to anarchism is what should be done, forming a strong community is the main priority in my opinion. In that respect forming a message that is out there for those interested is very important, as is debating, organizing events and sharing knowledge. Penny Rimbaud has done way more for the local scene here than Bakunin and Kropotkin together...

    When talking about experience... I've been involved with the local anarcho/activist/whatever scene since the late 1990's. At one time I even gave up on it to go get involved with more mainstream student oriented activism, but that left a very bitter taste in my mouth.

    Anyhow that experience only made me go back to my roots with more determination than before. During these ten plus years I've seen a number of people leave, and even cross to the dark side so to say. Had to defend my self. I also had first hand experience with those that promote violent anarchism, and seen error of their ways, and had a lot of shit to sort out because of somebody's ego tripping indulgence. Which made my stance against violence as force of change even stronger. I've seen a lot trashcans burned and a lot of windows smashed, but I've yet to see something good come out of it...

    As you see in essence we don't disagree, I just fond your jumping to conclusions is something you should think about...
     
  11. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    See you're right on bananaman. My beef with most anarchists is that they assume because I prefer individualism and a free market to collectivism and a mass owned market that I'm just some Rush Limbaugh motherfucker.
    Just because I personally believe that laisezz faire economics works better than collectivism doesnt mean I want to rid the world of socialists/communists. I just want the right to live in my little individualist community (or absence of community) and anyone who wants to for a collective society can do so. Hell, go form an anarcho primitivist society for all I care.

    As far as violence goes, I like to bring up the underlying theme of ancap which is "anything that involves force, intimidation, coercion, violence, threat etc. is inherently wrong.". Violence is the tool of the evil people who run us. If you build a society off of violence it will eventually be violence that consumes you (America, the mayans etc.).
     
  12. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Right on, penny rimbaud appears as a strong force that cud take over communities merely through the presence of personality and he wud probably argue with me about that instead of discuss or fob it off to take over the conversation, slimy haha from wat i have seen which is why comunities keep shifting away and back to him rather than doing it themselves(can not be a bad thing for individuals and also can), which is why i often say anarchists should learn more about humans and each other(human behaviour); but he is a great man in the same breath, lets say he's probably an egoist, thats no bad thing but the ego cannot be moulded and again looking at people rather than each other, I say go forth, merely critiquing and if i was in those circles would question it and most likely move on and stay true while hopefeully working with or alongside perhaps as it can not stay so centralised forever, history and our own failings should teach us that, I ahve also had all the experience i need and am aiming to do something 'different' as we're gettin bloody nowhere and someits gotta give, will it be YOU

    why must 'leaders' come from money hmmm etc, whys everyone looking for a saviour, why must everyone be the hero, why must anybody be a shitworker, now stop asking and get busy
     
  13. Spider

    SpiderExperienced Member Experienced member


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    ASA it may just be stuf getting lost in translation but i can never understand a word you say. either way you sure can fit a lot of ideas into one sentence. ;)
     
  14. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    read it like someone talking, yea i know, too many ideas, bad gramma, sugar haha, I'll try harder
     
  15. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    lol at least no one can accuse you of being non-entertaining :)

    -the anxietist
     
  16. Spider

    SpiderExperienced Member Experienced member


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    yeah don't take that as an insult, I love your posts, I have to spend a lot more time reading them to try and understand them and feel like i get more out of them because of this.
     
  17. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    YEA DUDE WHAT THE FUCK 23 PERCENT OF THE WORLD ARE TERRORISTS?? YOUR FUCKING WRONG


    ITS UP AROUND 95 PERCENT.
     
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