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CNT or IWA flags ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ungovernable, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Eve (she was writing you on my account) is really is an expert, she's an artist of the needle, the bane of the local boneheads, an important bastion of the little storm in the waterglass around here - you can count on it, you will get your flag.
    Mate and me were already cutting out the cat, he had the idea to use it as a template for a few outdoor sprayjobs - maybe she'll use to spay the the flag too - but she's the expert, and again: count on in, she'll do the best job possible... :thumbsup:
     
  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    So it's going to be home made ? How about the flag ? she's going to sew it herself ? And will it be washable ?

    i also have no problem compensing her financially, it's just normal ! At least pay her for the fabric and for her work...
     
  3. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    ungovernable,
    Eve isn't here right now, but she left me a note in the morning, asking me to help searching for her mechanical sewing machine, she borrowed it to somebody else, who borrowed it away again... so I guess she's already organising what she'll need to do the flag, I'll support her searching for the machine and my g/f, who is Eve's sister, agreed yesterday to search with her for the best avaliable fabric, they know some DIY-sources and we have good contacts to stores that sell the stuff.

    I don't want to talk instead of/for her, but I guess - practical girl that she is - the flag will be riotproof, Eve was with us in Spain, and the example of the CNT-activists we met convinced her to syndicalism, so the flag will have a very special meaning for her, and she's always really serious about her things.

    Reading her "don't want to hear nothing about compensation" statement made me grinning - I suggest you better not mess with Eve about it - and I talk out of experience, still scratching the bruises I got for just daring to think about messing with Eve. She's tough and consequent about taking her freedom to give, I don't think she'll ever give in with that.
    On the other part, she's part of the local network, so she get's support when necessary, regardless if her needs are personal or for a common project. Along with everybody else in the core of the net I'll do my thing for her, my g/f will support her, so Eve's efford to make the flag isn't that hard for her, she'll do just what she wants to do in the way she wants to do it.
    If money is necessary to buy the fabric, pay the shipment ect., I guess we'll pay for it out of the common pot for little extras, most of the money was donated to us for our work in the social net - and it's common agreement that our doing is just priceless 'cause we do it for the people, so the donations are for people too.
    Take the flag as a kind of donation for your work, so we get around the "trophy" thing, Eve's work will have a meaning - and there will be a donation for anarchopunk.net in autumn too I guess- and you won't think about compensation for that - we already take benefit from the site - and your work for the site.

    I'll met the others and Eve in the afternoon - multicolour/-gender/-age-soccer-battle - and I'll ask her to write to you directly as soon as possible, maybe she'll get her own account, it's a bit difficult for her because of the language, but she's already working on this too...
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    i see... sounds good !

    i hope she was only talking about compensation for her time.... i still have to pay for the fabrics, paint and shipping costs, that's really kind from her but she doesn't have to pay for that ! it wouldn't be fair if she have to pay the production cost, she's already kind enough to spend her time making it
     
  5. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    hi ungovernable,
    it's Eve again, thanks for the flowers all around, but i ain't dead yet/ and i have to ask: who started the whole action?
    The one and only true zealot around, always toooo busy to look after his stuff, not to mention, care about keeping it black or to learn himself sewing, but instead praising my specialism, i am not special, i am just me, vasSILLY.
    but you should have seen mr. grey eminence standing all alone in front of the goal and MISSING, that is a true expert. and talking of bruises, i will show him some bruises... now he is out swimming with the children and i hope they drown him.

    but back to the important thing:
    the template they made yesterday is quite good, some gentlemen used it last night outdoors on some very prominent surfaces and the outlines of the cat are quite clear and defined, despite fact that they used it in a hurry.
    i think it will be no problem to spray it, if it's necessary or better than to sew the cat onto the flag.
    but i would like trying to sew the cat or the CNT-letters onto the flag first, the detail of the head and the over lapping low parts on the black of the background are bit of a problem, but i think its worth to try it.

    YES, the flag will be riotproof, you can count on it and i hope you take it out to protests!
    i will make sure that the flag will survive whatever happens, i am very serious about the flag as a symbol of Anarchy, vassil told you, we spend some time with CNT people and since then i am completly into syndicalism.

    today i have arranged this week to meet some people doing DIY cotton yarning and weaving, to look for the best fabric avaliable and i am sure there will be good quality to find, and if this fails, the shops vassil mentioned are the next option, but i prefer non-industrial fabrics and want to look for DIY first.

    so i need to know your wishes about the size of the flag, vassil can scale the cat or the letters to the right relation with the copy he made on the computer, and it doesn't matter if i spray or sew it on the flag, i can cut out the cat or spray with the template. please tell me the size in centimeters.
    for the fabric: do you like it more shiny, like polyester or nylon, or less shiny as with cotton.
    the question of weight is up to you too, using cotton makes it more heavy if the flag is getting wet, using polyester won't make it that heavy..


    about payment, the time i spend to make the flag is not priceless but the flag is worth it doing it for free, its meaning is freedom, i think we agree about that. vassil already told you about our little spark here, i am proud to be my part in it, they care about me and they care for me whatever the problem is. my life is not easy, i still have no work and vassil and the others help me to live without asking for social help, without their help i could not go on. vassil is praising me for what i do, but its his and the others doing that allow me to do just what i want to do.
    we get money for our action for the people here, but we don't ask them for money. we don't ask YOU for money, we will take the money we already got without asking for it and its already agreed about that, everybody agreed.
    vassil found your site only weeks ago, but we all like it and take inspiration from it. he is right, it is only a donation for your work for the website and your devotion to the cause of Anarchosyndicalism.
    and i agree with vassil and the others to make a donation to the site directly to help keep it running. it is a principle that we do everything possible, and for me it is possible to make the flag for you. i can learn many things doing this flag, and i hope i will have finished it before the 20. of august - and at last you won't talk about money for a gift?
    vassil told you: don't mess with Eve! :thumbsup:
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Hello Eve,

    what action are you talking about ?

    i will take it to protests for sure ! people here will think that someone created a new CNT section in quebec hahaha

    size: classic size would do it (i think it is 3x5) but i don't really care if it is bigger or smaller, i'm not difficult :)
    fabric : most of my flags are in polyester so it would be perfect, but you are the expert so take whatever you want and whatever arrange you the best. i'd prefer a light weight flag but like i said, i'm not difficult ;)


    But it still makes me feel bad to make you pay for a gift that you will spend time on ! i work a little and i have the money to pay for it - at least the fabric and shipping - and you don't work and probably don't have a lot of money, it's unfair if you have to pay for everything :p

    You don't have to make a donation, you are already kind enough to make this flag for me :p if you don't want my money, i will make a donation to the website to pay for the flag :p i don't want to look like i'm taking benefice from anarcho-punk.net
    oh and it's perfect if it's finished for august 20, this is my birthday date hahah, would be a cool gift :p But don't worry if it isn't ready for august 20
     
  7. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    here are some more..... :D

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    i should make an image gallery for anarcho-punk.net someday...
     
  9. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Is there enough space?....definitely
     
  10. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    hi ungov,
    So it's me again, Vassilly77, rightful pretender to this personal account, the kids haven't drowned me, humble Eve and silly me already had just another little (!) debate, and I survived even that - and if it's necessary for me to atone in the eyes of the people for my crime of trying to mess with humble Eve, by praising her to be the heroine of the coming revolution, that she actually IS, and in addition to my personal disgrace on the fields of soccer today - I will beg for mercy and for forgiveness and for a cigarette too...
    (Eve just "forgot" where she left my tobacco can... Resource wasting nicotin ridden grey eminence that I am)

    But she never called me a zealot before, so I guess it's getting really serious and I will not dare even to think of mentioning that we won today, 'cause of her scoring three times out of the very center of the mercyless and unforgiving melee, sending comrades and opponents thrice her weight/size flying to the left and right...the score stood at 19 : 17 at the end of the battle... I'm still scratching my bruises.

    Truly, Eve ain't dead yet, actually she's buried under the giggling heap of her nieches, happily defending their poor old and silly father, but Eve claims that it's part of my punishment to do the typing, 'cause she still worries about her lack of English - everybody told her that she did well with her writing - but again, it's Eve...

    The action she mentioned is this very a-CNT-flag-for-ungovernable-project, her point of view about it is:
    I started it by taking interest in the flag-topic, bringing up the too expensive red-and-black-only flags from the mailorder Anarchy inc.'s and quoting about the local running gag about our "trophies" - union jack and stars'n'stripes. Both were captured from the enemy in England and an us-base in germoney, we keep them where they belong to: in the toilet, to support the collective digestion...

    Eve became really curious/eager around the time the question "what is duc fabric" came up, 'cause I asked her about it, she was reading the topic, researched a bit in the net and quoted supported by her sister to put her knowledge into common use - And I think she caught fire from punkmars CNT-pictures and your repeated
    "but I want a real CNT-flag".
    The spanish comrades we met two years ago really pulled her out of her former kind-of-primitivism, and now she's serious into the idea, it became a part of her life and she is very serious about it.
    (Another running gag in the local scene: If your suicidal tendencies become too serious for you to carry on - just call Eve "la pasonaria" - and she'll grant you your wish, single handedly and swift...)

    I'm still impressed by her claim that the flag should be used as the symbol it is - so the complete liberation of quebec is the least you can do...

    But I'm just a Punk and she's a Punk too, still blaiming me for my visible ignorance of special laundry detergents for the cheap army-shop-stuff I'm used to wear - but I DO care for my veteran NPS boots, only aged a little by 14 years of constant use, and I do care for the animal skin of my old second hand leather jacket - but if my us-cargo trousers refuse to wear and tear and become become only a bit greyish instead -
    well, it's the us marine corps fault, not mine...

    But more important - the action:
    Eve already talked with her sister, they will give every possible option a try, her favourites are natural fabrics, put she's a practical girl and the flag means a lot to her, so I guess out of my little experience with flags it will end up with polyester or nylon to be more reliable and useable - riotproof and washable.
    She also asked for a list of the shops we know, we have some good contacts with the local shops, to get polyester/nylon isn't a problem and it's most likely that she will get the fabric for free, 'cause of her reputation around here, doing social work wherever it's necessary.
    I also found out about the whereabouts of the sewing machine, they still need it for a few days more, doing some 2nd-hand clothing repairs, but she will get it back soon to start her experiments with the fabric.

    Her sister agreed to join her for visiting DIY workers and shops using the shared car, and they will take the kids with them, so the girls will learn something new too, you're never too young to start with DIY - side effects where ever you look...
    (Eve refused the youth brigades plea for a flag of their own, at least until they're becoming old enough to carry it themselves...)

    I already scaled the 3 x 5 ft. model for the cat, the cat's circle and the CNT-letters too, a mate and me will cut the new template tomorrow, we haven't been that busy on templates for years, it's good to be back on the business of outdoor art, Eve already mentioned that we got really good results with the spraying.
    We tried it on many different surfaces, even the local lair of authority was graced with a brand new decoration, and the new template will be even better and even more usable 'cause of the larger size.
    Good side effect again, it was fun using it experimental, no swasticas left to be seen on the streets...

    About the money: Eve is consequent about her point of view and everybody here is supporting her, not 'cause her bruising skills, she's just right about that.
    The necessary money for shipment will come from a collective "pot", we volunteer a lot in the local "free" social network, I' m proud to see our "core" very eager to contribute to the net and besides, we also benefit from it sometimes, we can use the shared car for example.
    The net is far from being Anarchist, most of the activists are just average people, mainly immigrants, but we've crossed the borderline between them and "the germans", and it's quite amazing to see the master-rats/boneheads around here having a difficult time 'cause of our joint efforts. Guess it's propaganda of the deed too, people start to oppose them and the racist cops openly on the street.
    It's a fundamental principle of the net that money is left out/doesn't count, it's a bit like the exchange circles in the past, but much more effective and detailed to make up for the individual deficits of official organized social welfare.
    Nobody has to recompensate, we do it for the people and never ask for money, but many around here are disabled or too old to contribute to the net with their own work or service. Out of bad feelings/self respect many of them insist on personal "donations" - Eve is a very popular "victim" for that 'cause of her seriousness, and we can't strictly refuse donations, for the majority it's just a way to cover up their neglected status in society for themselves.
    In the past we refused completely to accept any kind of payment, but the resulting trouble was far too great to be acceptable, many of them took it as kind of a personal insult.
    Between us nobody wants the money we get this way, it's against our common Anarchist principles too, so we put the "donations" into this "pot", to buy tools or extra materials if necessary.
    We used the "pot" to donate for grass root groups and german sites in the past - and it's already a collective decision to donate to anarchopunk.net via pay pal in autumn, everybody enjoys the site, many use the downloads and take inspiration from the topics - we just want the site to keep running and give our part to make sure of that.
    The donation for the site has nothing to do with the flag-for-ungovernable-project, Eve contributes her "donations" just like everybody else, so it will be "our" support for anarchopunk.net.
    The flag is Eve's doing, so rally around the result of her work in Quebec's future, don't think twice about how...

    Economy is down around here, compared with german standards we have an unusual high unemployment rate and our part of the city, it's one of "those" neighborhoods, brimming with social problems, money is rare in general, I guess I don't have to go in details.

    Eve's living isn't easy, it could be easier, but 'cause it's Eve's living...
    She got no job? - It's true, she tried hard but she won't get a job because of the unemployment rate and the high degree of her education, not to forget: she's a Punk - so no low-pay supermarket job for her - they can choose to employ less dangerous girls than her.
    And she IS educated, she could apply to college, she could also apply for welfare support and get whatever job training she wants, she could qualify herself for much more than the fought-over low-pay supermarket jobs - but she just don't want to do it, she don't want to be "that" special, no privileges for the ex-middle class kids...

    Everybody around here is trying hard to get her to use her abilities/opportunities at least a little bit for her own interest/future, or just to evade the mistakes most of us made in our past - its just useless, 'cause it's Eve and her strong believe, ignoring bad examples like her sister and me in real life, bound to the slavers because of the kids, fighting my old mom thrice a week, 'cause the kids still aren't baptisized - Eve should use her opportunities in a better way, but...

    She's the real zealot, consequently refusing to give in against her believe, always working for the community and the people in general - so we have to support her, first 'cause of her need, but she also deserves it.
    My boss is keeping me busy with refusing to employ more people for the job, I've to work overtime a lot, so it's not that difficult to cover her rent, her sister is making sure about that, at least Eve is family, but that's not the point. She cares about us and people in general, she cares about your flag and your birthday - and I think the liberation only of Quebec will not be enough for you to keep up with her...
    And I'll have to reconsider this laundry detergents stuff again... ungov, I guess we're really in trouble.

    But Don't think twice about the money, no need for bad feelings, it's our decicion just 'cause the common believe, you share it too and we can do it, Eve is just giving us the opportunity to prove it one more time, she's keeping us regal... and you're getting the flag to liberate Quebec... Thanx, zealot Eve!
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Sounds good... i am really happy for what she is doing, and she sounds like a really cool person !

    and you said that you accept donation, then i would like to make a donation in return ;)

    Sorry i don't have much time to answer right now, but i have read everything :)
     
  12. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Eve is a cool person, and this flag project is just a another little proof for that. I guess I even start to realize that the real problem is just the lack of suitable background/backup we can provide for her strong activism - the movement is still in it's beauty sleep, we still lack the basic structures of an effectivly working counter-culture or -economy in general, so we have to take the full impact of everyday's repression, slowing us down - it's hard to keep up with her...

    But we took her spurring, so I'm proud to report:
    The 3 x 5 scaled templates are finished and they are just perfect. We can spray the cat's white circle first, and after it's dry, add the cat and the circles' outline, the details and the CNT letters came out perfectly clean.
    We tried the whole thing on a basement wall and I will post a photo as soon as I get a camera.
    Next step is to find the right colours suitable for the use on fabrics, the soaking problem is a bit tricky.

    Eve is still favouring the cloth-on-cloth option and started practicing with "invisible seams" for the cat and the CNT letters, she used a electrical sewing machine but wasn't satisfied with the details. The speed of the electrical device makes it hard to control the stitching, but she has to wait for the mechanical machine's return to start the real experiment, using it's slow speed to get more control.
    Our basement arts found her approval and if her fave's come up to be less satisfiying, the spray option is already avaliable to cover this.

    The almost forgotten arts of stencil painting/template making enjoy a remarkable comeback, some of me mates caught fire and will start a Crass-inspired public arts campaign against the german/us war crime in Afghanistan, they are contacting a group in another part of town, so we might be able to cover a larger area of the city. We really should have thought about this long before, but it's never too late to start.

    AND there will be a photo turorial how to make multi-layer templates using easy available everyday materials, we'll post it in the creative section as soon as we have the photos and an adequat translation.

    I've investigated the fee for the shipment - oh, it's not that expensive, and the weight limits allow to add some of the templates for outdoor arts to the flag package, just in case you or somebody else in Quebec is sleepless at night and likes to take a walk... so it's really not important.

    About accepting donations - YOU aren't disabled, old and infirm - so we don't have to accept even if YOU insist on it... we insist on the liberation of Quebec - and after that we'll insist on the liberation of... and after that, we'll insist.... and after you finished finally, we can talk about donation.

    Oh, I nearly forgot about it - thanx again Punkmar, for the pictures, again, they are just great.
    We should try to collect them in a gallery, and while searching for something about professional print techniques in the university library, I stumbled over two big sized gallery catalogues full of spanish propaganda arts 1934 - 1939, most of the posters are of CNT/FAi or UGT origin.
    'cause of my lack of spanish I can only guess that the catalogues came from the 50 Years Anniversary celebrations in Barcelona, but it's quite a find anyway - I nealy jumped out of my boots...
    The only problem is, I'm not allowed to take them home to take hd-scans, but we have a transportable prof-scanner and I'll try to get a labtop to make the scans in the library.
    I'll post a link/upload them to mediafire as soon as possible.
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    fine... once the liberation of quebec is done, i will send you a couple of boxes full of AK-47 and some troops to liberate germany ;)
     
  14. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Hehe, out of bad habits in the past I'm still able to disassemble, clean and reassemble this mighty tool of people's liberation blindfolded and in less than 45 seconds and whistle "a las barricadas" while doing it...

    And adressing the Central Council Of The Anti-Fascist Militias,
    I would like to suggest to name the first column in respect to their resolve, bravery and devotion:
    "Schwarze Scharen - FAUD",
    and the columns' first hundred-ships:
    "Rudolf Rocker", "Augustin Souchy", "Helmut Rüdiger"
    In rememberance of their deeds to the cause of the international working class and the anti-fascist resistance.

    Pasaremos!
     
  15. WobblyNikol

    WobblyNikolMember Forum Member


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    hehe, "out of bad habits in the past" - reads: you've been a authorian marxist avantgardist, and only the eenglish were beating some sense in this mess of a hairy head of yours. but I will tell no-one if I get a hundred-ship called
    "Otto Rieger" to serve in, because he's still a great working class man and a great Anarchist too. and I want a special assingment for tanx-hunting too, because I believe I'm quite good at that - remember?! :lmao:
     
  16. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Okay, you can have "Otto Rieger", but I will apply for "Augustin Souchy" - just to get rid of your beautiful looks.
    "good at tank hunting" means using explosives and experienced tactics - not just smashing the machine with a bony heads :ecouteurs: like yours all the time running blindly across the field...
    And don't forget: I know where you park your bicycle... :ecouteurs:
     
  17. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    wanna get rid of me bautiful loox? then I gonna wear me trojan helmet, it's the best of technical thinxs I know of, dunno no explosives, need no tactics to do a good job. but I've never been no marxist avantgarde in me youth and I will tell the nasty offspring of yours... and at least I'll do the tanx hunting, not only sabotaging innocent people's bikes
     
  18. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    (what have you done to the network again - you're back on MY account - I'll come over and we fix it)

    ...At least there was some progress and improvement like growing hair and growing up and things like that.
    Ok, at least you have your FAU-card and so I considered to refrain from mentioning that I've overheard the kids talking about you and they were calling you "BABY BOMB"... but now, after hearing this "nasty offspring" thingie I think about asking them to play in the staircase, so they can have their way and with the cat they will jump to that thick red throat of yours and starteatingyouwhileyouarestillaliveandwigglinguselesslyuntiltheyfinishyouoff...
    That will teach you a thing or two...
     
  19. WobblyNikol

    WobblyNikolMember Forum Member


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    see, I've fixed it with on me own - wanna come over and see me in me glory - have a few bottles to share?

    baby bomb - now it's getting personal and I will have to wait till they grow up and get old enough to teach them more than a bit for each of them. baby bomb - little hairy witches they are, wicked...

    mate came over and I showed him the basement painting and he started jumping up and down and now we want the "otto rieger" hundreds-ship thingie and the tank hunting and a flag of our own and we don't thing that's too much to ask and we wanna ask you to join us for a botlle or two. so put down that ak-thingie of yours and I will open the door for you and evrything.
    and mate brought a nice "owen mcdonagh and the boogside men" irish civil rights rebel folk thingie and we wanna have advice how to rip it on this machine I fixed by me self...
     
  20. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Your my favorite skinhead genius - it's this network splitting thing, can't take the automatic loggin - we'll see.

    Can't come over, I'm alone with your favorite wicked witches, I will spare you and that glory of yours, so we'll have something else for dinner, besides, they told me that they don't like your pants...

    Who is it? You can have everything and I'll throw in an extra RPG-thingie for you, it's good for tank hunting too.
    Can't put down the AK, I don't have one and I don't need one until we start the "Schwarze Scharen - Faud" column.

    Guess I know this "Owen McDonagh And The Bogside Men" is there a song called "5th Of October". It's ages old, around 1973 - whats the problem with ripping it, use audiograbber.

    Yours is drunk? :beers: :beers: :beers:
     
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