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Check this out! Exploited Thread

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by Extinction, Dec 3, 2009.

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  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Fascism is, in nature, oppressive and hateful.

    It's not once they group together and start bashing all the punks and ethnic minority that it will be the time to do something, it will be too late

    Like Adolf Hitler said himself, "the only way our ennemy could have won is if they smashed us in the streets before we took the power"

    Anyway, what is the point of hanging out with nazis ? What's so cool and attractive about them ? There is no common points between us and them, why be friends with the peoples who are against our ideas and who would send us to concentration camp if they ever succeed in their ideas ? I really don't see the point..

    Anti-fascism is not only about fighting the worst nazis, it's also about opposing to unclear persons.

    I don't give a fuck how long you have been supposedly fighting NF if you tolerate peoples who support nazism, racism, homophobia, and anti-semitism.

    You are another living proof that the age doesnt have anything to do with the coherence of ideas.
     
  2. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    If you want, but you are living proof of how naive youth can be. In the real world, if I didn't tolerate people I disagree with, I'd have to kick shit out of almost everyone I met, including a lot of people here. Most are just misguided, or a bit dumb, or think it's cool, whatever, it's just a passing phase. I seen people like that turn about, so no, I not going to kick shit out people just cos they got some mixed up ideas in their head. If they put them into action, ok, that's different, but thought crime, nah, that's a bullshit idea. But anyway, that's Wattie, he too stupid to know what he really believes, otherwise he would write racist lyrics, and be proud to let the world know that he big nazi boy. Too much rumour shit anyway, I mean, you quoting Hitler like he your hero now, that makes you nazi, or what? Whatever, I think Exploited are crap anyway, always did. Dunno how that lasted so long, but nazi, unlikely.
     
  3. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i unno the biggest thing that sort of confuses me is this. facisim or what ever is about haiting some one for their skin gender and race and thinking their better. in a nut shell. but if we in turn hate some one before they even do somthing and we try and shut them down by fighting them or how ever. does that make us much better. we then in turn become the surpressers, the people that go up to another person and say you cant do that any more because i do not like it. im not saying im supporting them or anything. i find its kind of a shady area. if were hating people even though they have not really done anything yet then in my head its just as bad.

    but if a person goes around beating people for being gay or for what ever reason well then i have a poblem. but when i said sure i would hand out with some self proclamed facist. i was more talking about living with a persons rasicim(stupidity). like they are still a person, misguided as they are but if they are not doing anything reall outragous and just being a dumb ass, then well ill have a beear with them. i like to give a person the benifit of the doubt till they show who they really are. because these days you dont really find outright facist who goes around beating and killing. you just dont really see that shit. i havent really
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    i really thought the logic of peoples who think you can be a fascist for being radically anti-fascist is really funny... Hating hateful peoples isn't hate for no reason. Those peoples already hate anarchists for no reason, like i said if they took the power they would either kill us or send us to concentration camps.

    Anarchist already hate the police, we already hate the government, the army, etc... And as far as i know we don't wait until they do something bad in the front of us to justify our hate ?

    From what i understood in the police brutality march topic you seem to hate a lot the police and you didn't wait until you see them beat someone in your face to realize they are bad... You prefer fascists to the police or what??

    Homophobia itself is a problem, no need to beat the peoples just being homophobic is a problem. Same thing with racism. Racism itself is bad, no need to wait until someone beat black peoples to realize racism is problematic


    Then you are very misinformed. Every country in the world have problem with neo-nazis and racist. In USA there is nazi militias, the KKK, aryan brotherhood, american nazi party, aryan nation, national alliance, etc... there is a shitload of nazis everywhere and there is a lot of racial murders. Australia have a lot of problem with nazis too. Same thing in france, they are a lot and very well organized.
    Worst is in russia, the nazis are majoritary, very well organized and dangerous, every year there is thousands of racial attacks and murders. Don't wait until our country becomes like that.

    Even in quebec there is a lot of problem with the nazis. I know that a lot of nazis are currently in prison and will be liberated soon, they are in prison because they assaulted arabs, blacks and gays. Recently the nazis are trying to make a big nazi festival in montreal, it was supposed to happen in april but they reported it. Ever heard of the blood & honour or the strike force ? they are here in quebec too

    Not even talking about quebec's patriot and nationalist skinheads who hang out with nazis and most of them are racists.

    If you don't care about someone being explicitly nazi, then you are definatly not anti-racist and personnally i would have a big problem with peoples who support them.

    cops are still persons too. governments too.
     
  5. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Anyway, AFAIK, Hitler and Co. were crushed in 1945 - so turns out he was talking utter crap, right?
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Oh yeah you're right, hitler and co was nothing at all, just a little detail of the history.

    And then you pretend you know everything about anti-fascism ?

    Dude there's still neo-nazis today even in 2010, wake the fuck up. It doesn't matter if hitler was crushed in 1945 or not just like it doesn't matter what happenned with Mussolini. They left a big heritage and peoples are still believing in them even today.

    And by the way sherlock, we had to do a world war and throw an atomic bomb to end the war the nazis started. You think the world can afford this cost once more just because some peoples are too stupid to realize the mistakes of the history can be repeated again and we must stop them before they organize and take power ?

    So you fight the national front but you think neo-nazis aren't a menace, hmmmm..... Definatly, you have no lessons to give to me.
     
  7. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I dunno, maybe you got a problem with english. I never said any of the stuff you going on about up there. Merely pointing out that the quote you used from Hitler was obviously crap, it not being the only way his enemies could win, and btw the war with Japan wasn't started by nazis, which is the only place any atomic bombs were used. To consider that war, which started in 1937 with Japanese invasion of China, and the war in Europe, to be the same war is, in itself, racist. Here's the news: Hitler didn't invent racism. What I did say is: I not going to use violence merely cos of what I think is going on in someone's head, though I will use violence to prevent someone taking action that I think is harmful. Ok, so if you want to invent any more stuff, go ahead, I'll just watch.
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    The quote was about preventing hitler to get the power. Yes, the only way they could have prevented the nazis from gaining access to the power was smashing them in the street.

    What you say is stupid, we needed millions of death, a second world war and an atomic bomb dropped on 2 cities to stop hitler. Conclusions is obviously that the best way would have been to smash them in the streets before they take the power.

    wow please re-read your history, Japan were allies of nazis and it's the ONLY REASON why the war started with japan. If hitler didn't existed, Japan would have never attacked the USA.

    No shit, hiroshima and nagasaki. You think i'm an ignorant or what?

    Invasion of china have nothing to do with second world war.

    WWII started in 1939, you don't even know what you are talking about. Japanese invasion of china wasn't a world conflict, it was a conflict between 2 countries, mostly due to the ongoing war between maoist communists, nationalists and japan

    No shit sherlock !

    He didn't invent fascism either.

    So what are you trying to prove ?

    Then why did you pretend to be fighting the NF before i was even born ?

    Nazis want to do action that is harmful, if you agree to use violence against them because it's the only to prevent them from accessing power and/or doing harmful things, then why are you argueing over my Hitler's quote ?
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    wow, i didn't read this message :

    Not my fault if you don't understand what anti-fascism is about

    I'm not talking about that, i'm talking about not tolerating intolerance.

    You are preaching to tolerate nazis and you pretend to be fighting the NF since i was even born, you are a fucking joke. What are you fighting if you tolerate everything ?

    Yeah right, so we sit down and do nothing ? How dumb.

    If it was just a passing phase there wouldn't be nazi organisations everywhere and racial crimes.

    Maybe nazism in russia is just a passing phase too ? Go explain your shitty lessons to them, and explain them how they should tolerate the nazis because they're not dangerous. And then go pretend you are fighting fascism before they were born, hahahahahaha.

    Hitler's success is not only due to peoples who took action, it's also due to peoples who just had ideas and supported hitler. The problem is bigger than you think, but hey i'm the one who's naive.

    Definatly you know nothing about anti-fascism, you are definatly not an anti-fascist.

    Fuck you, hitler is not my hero you're just too stupid to understand the quote.

    Learn to read, we never pretended he's a nazi. Anti-fascism is not only about fighting the nazis, it's also opposing against ambiguous peoples and peoples who support nazism. But you don't understand that.

    Wow you are a fucking dumbass, i'm quoting hitler to prove a point against him and you think it's the same as someone who love nazi symbols like the swastika and who hang out with nazi peoples, collaborate with them, use nazi flags, nazi tattos, and act racist homophobic and antisemitist. How stupid.
     
  10. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    hahaha im sorry i found this pretty funny "I'm not talking about that, i'm talking about not tolerating intolerance."
     
  11. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    There is no middle of the road with this shit, peoples lives are at stake and it isn't a fucking joke. Rude-boy, to quote The Specials "if you have a racist friend, now is the time for that friendship to end" if you don't understand the passion behind anti-fa that's o.k., but don't try to convince us that we're being delusional or over the line. Those piece of shit motherfuckers in The Exploiters beat the shit out of my friends simply because they were Mexican punks with really thick accents and maybe a bit naive and young at the time, and all they were doing was saying hello in the dressing room before opening the show for them. I don't need an affidavit or a notorized sworn statement to know Wattie is a British Nationalist scumbag, and if you don't want to believe it because you don't have a personal statement from him, then keep on keeping on.
     
  12. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Yep, you're not the first to say this kind of remark, but i don't care. Not tolerating fascism doesn't makes you a fascist.

    Anarchists already do not tolerate policemans, politicians, capitalists, government, etc.... I don't see why we should make an exception for nazis, racists and fascists.

    It's about being coherent between your ideas and your actions.

    Zero tolerance for fascism, especially on an anarcho-punk forum where the bands we publish are strongly anti-fascists. Like oi polloi says, we are non violent peoples but when it comes down to fascism we must fight them with physical force. Maybe they are fascists and intolerant peoples too?

    I always found that the mentality of "tolerating intolerance because if you do not tolerate it it will make you an intolerant like them" is fucking stupid. Neo-nazism isn't an opinion, it is a crime against humanity. Fuck their freedom, anyway they are against freedom.

    I'd still prefer to be an intolerant than someone who tolerate nazism...

    PS : And please, i hope no one will talk about Noam Chomsky, i don't give a fuck what he think about freedom of speech for nazis and negationists, i follow no heroes.
     
  13. Protspecd

    ProtspecdExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ouch, what year did that happen in?

    I heard Noam Chomsky was a pretty cool guy. Eh talks about freedom of speech for Nazi's and Negationists and doesn't afraid of anything.


    Sorry, as soon as you say 'I hope no one talks about', someone is going to be a smartass. I figured I would take the fall for it.
     
  14. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Can't really be bothered with rest, but this bothers me. German invasion of Poland was not world conflict neither, just conflict between Germany and 3 allied European nations. The war in China that started in 1937 continued until 1945, with China later part of alliance with USA. To say WW2 started in 1939 is racist, resulting from white boy European centred view of world history. Some Americans say WW2 started in 1941, same bullshit.
     
  15. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    When NF on streets, I fight them. If I see someone being racist, I try stop it. If I hear someone say racist crap, I say something. I support ANTIFA etc, help raise money, publicity, etc. I getting old, I don't take to streets much nowadays. Anyway, I don't tolerate fascism. That don't mean I going to beat shit out someone cos they make a few racist comments, or cos I might think they 'ambiguous'. I say they talking bullshit, sure. I try show them that what they believe is crap, obviously. Whatever, you right, using the Hitler quote to prove you are a nazi is stupid, that is the point, it's as stupid as saying people doing nazi salutes at gig, or the odd photo with fascist nutter, makes Wattie a nazi.
     
  16. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    that wattie associates with nazis at all should be reason enough to not like or support the exploited, instead of basically being nazi sympathizers saying it's no big deal. wake up. it is a very big deal.
     
  17. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I don't like or support them, thought I'd made that clear.
     
  18. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    dont get me wrong im not supporting them or anythign liek that. but that was just the thoughs that were goin though my head it was somthign i was tryign to get my head around. its not liek im going around tryign to make friends with these people. but like. i know a few self proclaimed nazies. half of them i say ur full of shit to just tryign to look cool or wtv. i wasent callign you facist nazies or wtv. if u look at what i said in the paragraph i was sayign how the subject confuses me and its like a shady gray spot. i was not calling you things i was trying to see what you thought of the idea. i dont liek ahtign people. i pride myself on beign very opening minded let people do what i do. i will do what i do kind of thing. very passive. so for me to go and outright say i hate everythign your about is tricky,
     
  19. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Yep he even defended the freedom of speech of Faurisson, the most notorious negationist. How awesome, eh ? Nazis and other piece of shit now can count on the anarchists to defend them !!

    Why not also ask the State to liberate the nazi political prisonneers and liberate the ones who did racist crimes because we are against law and against prison ?

    I agree with a lot of stuff noam chomsky wrote, but definatly not on this.

    China vs japan conflict didn't evolve other countries declaring the war because of this conflict, re-read what is the definition of a world war conflict. And Japan didn't invade multiple other countries after the china conflict.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

    World War II, or the Second World War[1] (often abbreviated WWII or WW2), was a global military conflict lasting from 1939 to 1945 which involved most of the world's nations, including all of the great powers

    Here you go Smartass.

    Then why did you say this isn't a menace, because those peoples are just dumb and misguided, it is just a phase and they will stop being racist by themselves, in othr words we don't have to fight against it ?

    Why do you support ANTIFA if you are against physical confrontation with nazis ?

    No, what is stupid is your dumb comparison.

    I'm quoting hitler to prove a point against him, to explain how to fight against it. And you think it is the same than someone who PROMOTE hitler and nazism or are friends with them. It should be obvious.

    i wasn't talking about you, i was talking about the nazis. They hate all we're about, so i don't understand why tolerate them or be indifferent to their ideas as long as they doesn't start beating arabs in front of our face
     
  20. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    So you saying German invasion of Poland was a world war cos two other European countries were involved. That still sounds like a European war to me, and after invading China, Japan also invaded US, UK, French and Dutch territory. No they didn't invade anyone after the conflict with China was over, since that conflict didn't end until 1945. So, wiki also follows white boy view of world history, no surprise there.

    I didn't.

    I'm not.


    How the fuck can I talk to you if you keep inventing stuff?
     
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