Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

Arguement Thread 1

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by ungovernable, May 15, 2010.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,336

    62

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 34 years old
    Canada Canada
    i'm still tolerating your fucking stupid speech on this forum even if you piss me off and ridiculise what this website is about so don't call me an authoritarian

    i'll repeat myself again: you are saying it is an incrotrovertible fact that all anarchist revolutions in the history were acting like authoritarian

    You keep playing with words again, but some days ago you posted a definition of authoritarism that said the definition of someone who is authoritarian is someone who ACT like an authoritarian
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,336

    62

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 34 years old
    Canada Canada
    Re: Pentagon tightens supremacist ban after SPLC urging

    no, this is a LIE. he called me fascist and authoritarian way before this debate even started. Just shut up, you are new on this website and you don't understand anything
     
  3. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    143

    0

    0

    Oct 12, 2009
     
    Re: Pentagon tightens supremacist ban after SPLC urging

    People need to stop throwing around the word "fascist" on this website. Not only does it make you sound completely histrionic, but it's just lazy to resort to labeling people as whatever the profane category in your ideology is. If you've got a problem, make a real critique.
     
  4. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Re: Pentagon tightens supremacist ban after SPLC urging

    I also followed that up by citing specific instances. You're original statement at least strongly implied there were a substantial amount of neo-nazis and law enforcement, therefore, being representative, at least to some degree. Moreover, all I said, all I said, was that this is a very tiny percentage of the millions of men and women in uniform. Then it's suddenly world-war-whatever-the-fuck, over what is really an incredibly inoccuous statement. This led me to the obvious conclusion that this was being disputed.

    As for Ungovernable's statement, I re-read it afterwards and he does use the phrase "an army", not "the army." I either missed that, or, and I'm sure I'm going to be accused of being a nazi racist whatever for even pointing this out ,but his english isn't 100% so I may have read a bit more into it. At worst it was it was an honest misinterpretation.

    I don't want to assume too much here but it sounds as though you're suggesting my characterization of Ungovernable's views on the "anarchist philosopher" thread was incorrect. I restate that I did not accuse him of anything he didn't personally say, or strongly imply. Other users have also made the same observations, as well.

    Moreover, that's fundamentally different, because there's virtually no room left for misinterpretation, on the central issues at least, because there's so much material to go on. A sentence can be taken out of context, but after ten pages it should be pretty clear. This is why it amazes me that what I've said has been horribly mischaracterized or misunderstood after it's been made abundantly clear.


    No, I won't give an inch on that. Ungovernable alone has posted pages worth of obscenities and hatred at me. Add to that Anom, Butcher, etc. I've admitted I'm lacking in the social graces but I have never produced even a tenth of the vitriol, and nastiness I have received. There's absolutely no comparison whatsoever. Even Back2front has pointed this out, and we don't like eachother very much. However, there is a world of fucking difference between disagreeing with someone and launching this kind of personal crusade. A few weeks ago I might've been able to be somewhat sympathetic because I know I can be a bit rough around the edges, but not after the avalanche of shit I have received. It's completely off the scale.
     
  5. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    5,708

    165

    709

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Not worth continueing NGNM, its all redundant and I don't think you have the capacity to recognize when you are wrong (more than the one time you begrudginly admited it) so once again.......cheers :beer:
     
  6. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Twice, now.
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,336

    62

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 34 years old
    Canada Canada
    YES YOU DID, LIAR

    You keep putting words i didnt say in my mouth, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, and even after repeating you like 10 times that it's not what i want to do, you keep saying that i want (for example) to imprison nazis for expressing an opinion, and you keep pretending i want to censor all different opinions when i clealy stated multiple times "my tolerance ends where hate begins"

    Also, MANY other users have also made the same observation and they agree that you put words into my mouth, and you put words in other's mouth too.

    No it's definatly not clear since you can't answer most of the questions addressed to you, beginning by when you are asked to explain how your ideas can be realizable in real life, since you have no historical example to prove that it is possible to tolerate freedom of speech for our ennemies in a revolution. You also have no other peoples than Chomsky who support this philosophy, and chomsky isn't an anarchist.

    Back2front's stalinist trial isn't worth shit, he still doesn't understand that your insults began on another topic, way before the talking about free speech began.

    Totally true.

    We are talking about ideologies. You never questionned your own ideologies, and you never admitted ONCE that some of your ideas are wrong (or could be). And then you call us fascists and authoritarians, but you act like you know the ultimate truth.
     
  8. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    You just DID censor all other opinions. You also said or implied everything I attributed to you.

    Several other users interpreted you're words the same way I did, and frankly you're living down to my estimation of you.

    Stop right fucking there. You call me "piece of shit", "dumbass", "asshole" and you're getting pissy because I don't answer your every fucking question like a dancing bear? I have answered your questions for nearly a dozen pages, I've answered the same questions dozens of times. I have gone far above and beyond in answering questions, explaining, and re-explaining.

    I don't believe violent revolution is a good idea right now or in any immediate future in western society. I am convinced it would create much more death and misery than we already live with.

    I also would remind you that this has nothing to do with the original question. I'm going to try to explain it again, although I know it's pointless. Even if there were a law of physics that made it impossible not to eat beef, it still wouldn't be consistent with Hinduism. You're arguing what is or is not feasible doesn't have anything to do with ideological consistency.

    If you want to beat bad ideas, teach people. Explain things. Have public debates. Build schools. Come up with better arguments. If you have to censor people you only prove your ideas aren't strong enough to withstand criticism.


    He doesn't call himself an Anarchist anymore, but his ideology hasn't changed. He just doesn't label himself that way anymore.

    Also, this is not true. Many Anarchists believe in free speech, and they should because it's the only consistent position. It's really tragic because so many Anarchists fought so hard, and some even died for freedom of speech. Emma Goldman was a crusader on this issue. In fact, one of the Anarchists' biggest criticism of the Soviet government was the oppression of free speech.


    You have absolutely no right to say I've been insulting after what you've said to me. There is no comparison at all.


    When did you ever give an inch on anything? Who the fuck is "us"? I am talking to YOU. Anybody else can speak for themselves. I'm not sure what ultimate truth means. I have my beliefs because based on what I have read and I have seen and learned, they are true, to the best of my determination. Otherwise, I wouldn't believe them. I am not going to change my most deeply held beliefs simply because you disagree. That would require a hell of a lot more than anybody's offered so far. If anybody actually wants to have a serious, intelligent, adult conversation about philosophy, I'm game. However, it doesn't look like anybody's interested in that.
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,336

    62

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 34 years old
    Canada Canada
    No. This website is TOOL FOR PEOPLES SHARING THE SAME COMMON POINTS OF UNITY. Because we want to center on what unite us and not what divise us HERE doesn't mean we would ask the peoples in a real-life anarchist society to do the same. This is a different thing. And in an anarchist society i would definatly careless of your ideas and wouldn't want you to center on other things.

    You definatly doesn't understand anything.

    No this is a lie. The others users are just manipulated by your lies and they doesnt make the effort to read my posts.

    I never said ANYWHERE that i would imprison or kill peoples only for having ideas, and you failed over and over to explain where i have said that.

    you just keep making lies and accusating me of saying things i never said, this is called disinformation.

    Many other users also noticed you were lying and they said i never said that. But you keep putting words in my mouth,

    See, once again you refuse to admit you are wrong. I NEVER SAID WHAT YOU ACCUSE ME OF HAVING SAID.
    LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR.

    Quote where i said i would imprison or kill peoples thinking something different OR SHUT YOUR LIAR MOUTH UP.

    then why the fuck are you participating to a debate forum if you refuse to answer my question?

    My last messages of yesterday contained absolutly no insults, and you still ignored me. Debating with you is a waste of time

    you are an hippy. revolutions aren't possible without violence, and history proven it. and you can't find one single example of a pacific revolution

    Your ideas are just impossible to realize. End of the story. That's called utopia.

    damn hippy

    the problem is not the capacity of withstanding criticism, but the impact that this hate speech would have on the society, even with criticism withstanding.

    Chomsky never called himself an anarchist, he called himself a "friend for anarchists"

    Freedom of speech for the fascists is a MINORITY position inside anarchism. the MAJORITY of anarchists think the same.

    And THOUSANDS OF ANARCHISTS DIED TO FIGHT FASCISM AND SILENCE IT, thousands of anarchists died against the fascists in spain, thousands died in WWII, thousands died in kronsdadt, makhnovtchina and the zapatists.... They all fought very hard to silence fascism, so fuck you i don't care about what you say, YOU are the one who is destroying the memory of those anarchists who fought against fascism.

    Same for you. You have absolutly no right to say i have been insulting after you were the first to call me a fascist, an authoritarian, a stalinist and a fake anarchist.

    that's exactly what punkmar77 said so yes i can talk for him.

    you never questionned your ideologies and admitted you were wrong on some things

    Just get the fuck out of this forum dude, you have nothing to do here. This forum wasn't built for idiots like you.
     
  10. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    719

    0

    0

    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Re: Pentagon tightens supremacist ban after SPLC urging

    SHUT UP YOU FASCIST ASS FASCIST FUCK ;)

    Nah... but id like to argue about this name calling. Everyone does it, if you say you dont then you are wrong and you know your wrong because you know you do do it. But like the above quote says, ill make it a REAL CRITIQUE of you, and if i feel your being a fucking bitch, or douchebag or pussy, im gunna say it.

    And about saying pussy and stuff is sexist, if women can say it to me (and they do) then im going to say it back. Im for EQUAL rights of men and women, nothing more nothing less.
     
  11. AnarchoFem

    AnarchoFemExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    155

    2

    0

    Apr 15, 2010
     
    Re: Pentagon tightens supremacist ban after SPLC urging

    Or else you could tell her to cop the hell on and stop saying it...and if she doesn't then ignore her?! I know people who say "faggot", but just because they say it doesn't mean I should copy them...to me that seems like such a childish way of dealing with things.
    I also hope that just because some women say it, that you think it's acceptable to say it to all women. I'm not saying that you do or anything, just it wasn't clear from what you said.
     
  12. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    719

    0

    0

    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Re: Pentagon tightens supremacist ban after SPLC urging

    No, i dont say words like that just because they do, im just saying that women around me say that, including faggot and such. And i dont use it willy nilly, but it does come out once in a while and im just trying to say that im not a piece of crap for saying it, or sexist.
     
  13. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    143

    0

    0

    Oct 12, 2009
     
    Re: Pentagon tightens supremacist ban after SPLC urging

    Veg Barb, I'm fine with name calling, I just think it's lazy to nazi-bait people.

    ...you obstreperous ass-polyp.
     
Loading...