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Are you ready for Anarchism?

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by Danarchy, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 16, 2012
     Canada
    I pose the question are you ready for Anarchism in the following context;

    1/ Land, expertise and materials were available to construct a sustainable self-sufficient dwelling.
    2/ Land, facilities, expertise and equipment were available to produce your own food.
    3/ Land were available to produce food for exchange (barter or sale) for those things you could not create yourself.
    4/ Facilities and material were available for mechanics, metal works (forge), pottery or woodwork creativity.

    Basically, you would just need to relocate to an autonomous space and work with those there to build the community. Would it matter where it was, citizenship and immigration laws aside? Would you be interested in joining an established group, constructing from the ground up or both? Is the primary road block to assuming such a situation purely the financial reality of our current economic reality or personal hesitation?

    I ask the question here because...

    1/ The Cooperative I work with and another (it's a hippie group but their cool) I know of are actively pursuing seasonal and residential members.
    2/ I am self-described as an Anarchist (no hyphenation) and would like to impliment a greater intentional community on those principles.
    3/ Though I have lost a desire to 'look punk', I am a punk at heart and would like to facilitate a greater anarcho-punk community that answers some of the 'what now' and 'how could it work' questions.
     

  2. Paul Lewey

    Paul LeweyNew Member New Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    Dare I say and I may be wrong in this, but regarding to the last quote you give.. " As human beings..." Etc.... As Human beings, our greatness lies in our most Destructiveness and that is the Knowledge of making Fire... I would sadly say it is not that " Great ", because it will destroy.... :'(
     
  3. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 16, 2012
     Canada
    I fail to appreciate the context or meaning of your post.

    Greatest is not the power of the individual to inflict harm on others or their environment, rather the ability of the individual to recreate their reality through reason and reflection. The actual power manifest in anything we create is the process of creating represented by the product created. Being able to generate a thought, reflect upon meaning, develop an understanding, then recreate ourselves through the revised understanding connected to an appreciation of that which is created. The quote is from Ghandi, though I did edit for length, not content, the full quote is "As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world - that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves.". Maybe the clarification with assist in understanding.

    The urge to destroy is only a creative urge in that the destruction is utilized in creation. The child who 'destroys' his 'lego' castle to use the parts to 'create' a spaceship; the greatness is not in either the destruction of the castle or the creation of the spaceship but the thought and reason that created the fantasy that necessitated the creation of the castle, destruction of the castle, creation of the spaceship, destruction of the spaceship, and on, and on... destruction being creation, creation being destruction.
     
  4. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Nov 13, 2009
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    Yes to all of those things....no to moving anywhere so cold in the winter, I fucking hate the cold. Other than that I think I would love to live in such a commune. I can take extreme heat much better than extreme cold, I don't know why that is, but I've tried living in northern climates and I always come running back south. Unfortunately most of the communal living situations I know about are in northern climates for some reason.
     
  5. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 16, 2012
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    Due it's -22C outside with 20-30k gales and 8" of snow overnight, my water just burst and froze an ice sheet all over my power tools and Vespa, and I gotta get wood from the shed for the fireplace, sometimes being Canadian Sucks but being a rural Canadian can really suck!



    ...but the power is stil... ...and the interne... ...doesn't wor... :lmao:
     
  6. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Nov 13, 2009
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    Yeah I have a cousin that lives in Minneapolis that calls me just to tell me it's -10F outside and the snowbanks are towering over the storefronts...hell no, I get cold just listening to him. :ecouteurs: But I bet it's still amazing living in BC it seems so beautiful there in spring and summer from the little I've seen in films and pictures...
     
  7. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 31, 2010
     
    I with you on cold, first winter here (NE Bulgaria) it hit -24c. I hated it, biting wind, windows smash, water pipes frozen, 2ft snow, 6ft drifts, road to town blocked, power fails, all that shit. Not bad so far this year, -5c at worst, and just few inches snow. Summer is good though, over 35c for 3 months.
     
  8. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I made the crack about the power going out and, blam ,there it went.

    The 'I can't handle the cold' problem is certainly a concern. I've worked in everything from +35C (I melt in the heat) to -65C (without the wind chill, that is fuckin' cold) Good to know your Anarchism in thermally based ;) but at least it isn't the, I like living in the city 'cause you know the shows and shit argument. The cosmopolitan nature of some Anarchists and punks really gets under my skin. One of the main arguments for Anarchism is the dissolution of centers of commerce and manufacturing that congregate humans into 'feed lots' in order to ensure a surplus labour force and low wages. Not much has been written, that I am aware of, about the consequences of urbanization from an Anarchist perspective or the value of ruralification of a society. Maybe someone can hook me up with it, ahhh shit, maybe I should try writting it.

    Anyway, we have been participating in an informal cooperative to supply a home delivery business in Kelowna. There are 5 farms involved and through the venture we supply 300+ families with a weekly food box and they have supplied us with a fairly reliable income for over 15 years. Each year we get together with the business and other 5 farmers and we hash out who will grow what and organize joint shipping to minimize travel. While not Anarchist by declaration or commercial base, it is similar to the organization necessary to feed a city within the context of an Anarchist society. Each farmer is small, works their land and the 'owners' of the delivery service also work 'on the floor' of the business. If we were aware of such groups or urban Anarchists/ Anarcho-punks organize such groups a joint urban/ rural movement could evolve. One that ensures a reliable safe food supply to urbanites while garaunteeing a reliable revenue for ruralites. While I am one for the collectivisation and organization of cooperatives I believe that the insular nature of the 'hippie' commune was directly linked to their downfall and inevitable failure. I say don't drop out, drop in.

    It is unfortunate that the above could not be done 'for free', we do participate in labour exchange but we are too distant from major urban areas for it to be effective for us in that manner, i.e. the cost of travel to Vancouver alone would negate any value received unless the size of the order warrented the shipping and time away. Even our food donations to Occupy Van had to be intermittent based on our deliveries to that area. When we participated in the Farmers Market in East Van and at all of our Farmers Markets, NO ONE walks away from our stall without getting what they need. It absolutely ripped my heart out when I recently saw a senior walk away from buying outdated milk cause the grocery store wouldn't sell it too her for half price (outdated = they can not sell it) and she couldn't afford the full price. I offered to buy her the milk but she was too proud to accept 'my charity'.

    Northern climates aside, you bring up another problem with the Collectives/ Coopertives that exist, a lack of awareness of each other. Here in BC their has been some very impressive changes in the style of ownership of small farms. Many of the young farmers (20-30 y/o) are forming Cooperatives and buying land in trust whereas my family transformed our family farm into a cooperative, still more are considering alternative ownership models as the price of land here has skyrocketed. There is also a non-profit agency called The Land Conservancy (TLC) that provide donated farm land to farmers at low or no cost, one hitch, you can't live on it.

    But I digress, I am obviously a rural, agrarian Anarchist... and if you want to visit BC in the summer punkmar77 your welcome here, try mid to late august and were +35C every day but the lakes are still glacial.
     
  9. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    I grew up agrarian and rural as well in Mexico, growing and harvesting barley for Tecate beer on 350 acres...my father still owns the ranch but has parted it out to afford his growing family...he is 75 and just had a new daughter with his young wife...crazy old man. Would love to visit sometime, never been north of Oregon on the west coast. Yeah I could really care less about living in the city, I see it as more of a detriment than an asset, and as far as shows, well I have really been to and/or played probably hundreds if not more in my lifetime so I can't complain.
     
  10. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 3, 2010
     
    Yo. Just re-read this. Have to admit, I'm intrigued. What would the logistics of this be?
     
  11. sali(e)

    sali(e)Experienced Member Experienced member


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    that this planet has enough land to farm on for everyone is not reality. is it? can every family, person, gang have there own farm? if not, who chooses who does or does not? even if there was enough land, is it okay to tear it all up/down to have a farm?

    anyway, i wouldn't want to be in no hurricane alleys, or tsunami coastlines or crumbling cliffs, or flood zones ect.

    any extreme hot or cold areas or drought zones, water please. no radioactive land or anywhere in the path of migrating insects, less its the monarch, then maybe.

    i do live in an urban jungle. there is a little community farm here that i pay top dollar for a food box. its a little crazy when i think how much i spend on my fruit n veggies, but even crazier thinking about what some farm workers have to go through to get 3lbs of tomatoes for 99cents to my local giant grocery. while i can afford it, i'll help out my local farm. and maybe, just maybe, grow my own one day.
     
  12. Paul Lewey

    Paul LeweyNew Member New Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    Thanks Danarchy, for the full Quote and for the explanation, I totally understand where you are coming from... :thumbsup:

    Talking about the situation of living in a rural area... There is a market town on the boarders of Lancashire and Yorkshire, Uk called Todmorden, with a population of just under 15,000. They have been running a communal scheme of growing herbs, fruits and vegetables in any spare land, be it at the fire station, railway station etc. Check out their site,



    It is open to anyone to pick herbs, vegetables etc. Even if they are just driving through. Imagine every town and city growing food; parks, roundabouts, verges and any spare land turned over to growing herbs, fruits and vegetables. How living in a built up city would be changed for the better!
     
  13. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 3, 2010
     
    Looks interesting. Not really close to me, but might be worth a visit at some point.

    Anyway, I got the impression that Danarchy was not talking in mere hypotheticals, I though he was talking about somewhere needing people in the here and now. I'm just wondering a bit more about the finer details...
     
  14. Paul Lewey

    Paul LeweyNew Member New Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    Yeah I guess there is a situation happening, it would be worth applying for, unfortunately I have no passport and not sure when I will get one. When I do, Canada is somewhere I would love to visit and so, I would be interested to visit where Danarchy is and see if I could fit in.... That's if I would be welcomed?
     
  15. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 16, 2012
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    There is a perception that there isn't enough land, but the reality is there is more than enough for everyone even if the population continues to grow at the UN predicted rate. The problem is land use. Is there enough land for everyone to live in the 1950's American Suburban fantasy world (not that we would want to) and grow enough food, the answer is no. Those not farming would need to accept living in vertical housing as it is more efficient in terms of land use as well as fuel/water and energy efficiencies. Take a look at the population density of Japan as well as their overall agricultural productive capacity. Although they do not produce enough food on their tiny island, they are amazingly effective at maximizing their land use. Also, why would EVERYONE need to be a farmer? As a farmer I NEED products to assist with my occupation, mulches, natural soil additives, tractor parts etc. I also enjoy many of the services that are offered to me like the internet, movies, books, telephone, electricity... ...even the occasional meal out. I have friends that work in several industries that LOVE what they do, almost as much as I love growing plants without them I could not farm.

    There is no place in this world that is not safe from the risk of a catastophic environmental event. As the global climate worsens this will become more so. Insects are and need to be EVERYWHERE.

    If your local farmer has not done so yet, thank you for supporting community based agriculture. The products offered for sale at grocery stores are the result of third world slavery, I would rather starve than exploit and enslave others to feed me. If it isn't fair trade, it is exploitation.
     
  16. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 16, 2012
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    I am talking both hypotheticals and practicals. Hypothetical, are you as an individual ready to be involved in the implimentation of the Anarchism you speak; Practical, as a member of an agricultural cooperative/ intentional community that suffers from a serious lack of participation and holds immense potential.

    finer details... ... this is a VERY limited description of the Cooperative and Intentional Community

    We are worker run but with two levels of commitment, seasonal and permanent. Seasonal apprentices are given the opportunity to participate in the daily operations of the Cooperative and short term considerations, they are also paid and provided with room and board. Permanent residents are participate in the daily functioning of the Cooperative, short term considerations as well as the overall structure of the Cooperative, annual planning and long term projects, we are also paid, given temporary residence in a Cooperative building until housing can be constructed (by us) and can participate in meals as we choose. Each level of commitment has with it an application and evaluation process (we have to live with each other) as well as share purchise expectations although labour exchange is the prefered method of share purchise. More explaning as you need but we do not prescribe to any hyphenated 'Anarchism' rather adopt the solution that meet our current need and amend as situations change. For example, we NEED to pay our mortgage therefore we must sell crops for a value that covers our costs as well as providing us with some other income. If we did not NEED to pay a mortgage we could sell our crops for less or sell less crops therefore work less.
     
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