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Anarchy

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Anarcho-Communist, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChrist Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I really think it will happen as almost a sort of Anarchist "rapture" of sorts. We all know the governments are driving the world too hell, eventually it's going to get to a point where we cant stand it anymore and everything will collapse, people will die countries will get overthrown. Mass hysteria, chaos, the government won't be able to control it, or us for that matter, even hardcore capitalists will get sick of it, and anarchy will rise. We will unite and overcome.
     
  2. Anom

    Anom Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    There has been people struggling for anarchism for so long, in different times and different parts of the world, but all the ones that made a difference, even if they didn't get a complete anarchist revolution, had something in common: they all belived in what they did! All those men and women who gets or through history has gotten murdered, prisoned, beaten... They all did it with a conviction it was not in vain. If we don't belive in anarchy, how are we going to be able to do what we have to? To use any means neccesary? To fight the system even though we know we could go to jail or get killed over it? Or only to loose our jobs, friends, to be looked wierdly at... What happened?
    I'm not going to bring up a lot of examples here but a couple might be needed, I think. First, an older example. Joe Hill. An immigrant with nothing, a struggling worker who had moved to usa to make a better living but got to see great injustices and decided to do something about it. He was not alone, of cause, but he and his comrades did what they could, what it took, for what they belived in.
    He got executed, of cause.
    The second example is from a more recent and a completely different situation; a lot of people demonstrating in Copenhagen at the COP15 meeting, got arrested. They knew when they went there that it could, and probably would, happen. Still they went. They all must have belived in what they did strongly enogh to find it to be worth it.
    In everyday life we also face these questionings: is it worth it? do I belive in this enough to face the consequences? When we think it's not worth the risk, it's really hard to go through with it, what ever it may be. It can be small things like crossing the road before it's turned green or it can be big things, like beliveing it is worth dying for a revolution.
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Like i said, a revolution isn't made by throwing flowers at the government and the bourgeoiserie.

    Yes, there will be blood, death, civil wars, a lot of fire and sabotage. And yup, we can expect a massive counter-revolution, especially in the USA.

    The whole spanish revolution started by a civil war....

    Don't forget what "no war but the class war" means...

    One last war against all the wars


    For the rest, i think it is normal to ask ourselves questions about what we believe in. It's better than following like mindless sheep and don't understand anything. After all, anarchism is all about permanent questionning of everything and self-criticism. Even myself i have some questions i can hardly find answers to.

    But facts are that most of those questions would fade out during the revolution, because a whole collectivity taking the decisions by themselves would easily and quickly find a solution to all these problems... After all that's the only important thing : order without power, peoples deciding their own destiny by themselves.
     
  4. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    Dude, it's spelled bourgeoisie.
     
  5. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    dude, you are a fascist.
     
  6. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Correct spelling=fascism, got it.

    So tell me, how am I a fascist? You always seem to scream it when someone veers from your petit bourgeois liberalism.
     
  7. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 18, 2009
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    LOL me a liberal? what is your problem? I disagree with you on a lot of levels and you call me names and talk shit? Seriously, either PM me and we can continue this, or back the fuck off.
     
  8. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You've called me a fascist at leat 6 or 7 times, and I'm asking you to say how I am if you're going to scream and whine that I am.

    You are a liberal, your ideology is based on class collaboration, reformism, a disconnection from the class struggle, the beleif in the state in terms of practicality (though not ideologically), and the disregard for revolution. You might as well join the Democratic or Working Families Party.
     
  9. Wonder138

    Wonder138 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 2, 2009
     
    AND THIS IS WHY ANARCHY IST GONNA HAPPEN ANYTIME SOON
    stop fighting each other keep your opinions to your self if you think hes wrong dont bitch at him tell him help each other grow we all seem to believe in the same thing hear and if we dont work together then you mine as well fuckin start applying to the army or run for president cause this contest bickering will get us no wear im not taking side with either of you that would only keep the fight going its time for you to drop it and talk this shit out

    THE ONLY WAY WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN IS IF WE LEARN TO CHANGE!!!!!!!
     
  10. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    The thing is, he and I don't strive for the same thing, he wants some liberal social democratic paradise, whereas I want Libertarian Communism. You can't have a movement if you don't criticize people who are wrong, this synthesist crap being pushed is a divergence from the revolution into ineffectualism. You can't give me one good reason why I should team up with ol' Army supporting Anxiety if his goals are averse to mine?
     
  11. Wonder138

    Wonder138 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    that's why you discuss it
     
  12. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    How? I get called a Fascist every 3 posts, and he's a closet reactionary.
     
  13. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    ok, i probably shouldn't have called you a fascist, i am worried that you will alienate people who don't speak English as a first language by being so quick to point out peoples' grammatical mistakes. So i do apologize for that, and I will not call you that anymore.
     
  14. Wonder138

    Wonder138 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    THANK YOU
     
  15. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ungovernable is Quebecois, "bourgeoisie" is a French word.
     
  16. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ok i am going to address this here after all. sorry to those who don't want to read it, but they can skip it if they so desire.

    We don't both strive for no government? if that is not what you strive for why are you here on an Anarchist site? (not an insult, I am asking an actual question and hoping for a response)

    You keep calling me a liberal. I do not want any government, let alone any regulation whatsoever. I believe in NO GOVERNMENT, no leaders. I am an autonomist, i believe let people live their lives their own way, as long as it is not oppressive to others. I do not understand what makes you say i want a liberal democratic paradise? please explain what that means and why you think I want it.

    I also never said i support the military. I said i don;t agree with being confrontational and yelling fuck the troops at soldiers. I do not wish there to be any military.

    There, now feel free to respond to how averse you and I are.
     
  17. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChrist Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    ZOMG A TYPO
     
  18. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'm on an Anarchist site because I'm an Anarchist. But that doesn't mean I bullshit and let people turn Anarchism into whatever individual philosophy or idea they have of it. Anarchism is a set ideology with its own economics (Communist), political theory, and view of what is to be done. Any attempt to water it down or attatch anything else to it (real anarchists don't eat meat, shower, work, be athiests, etc.) is an affront to the movement and a drain on its legitimacy in working class politics. Thus, I don't stand for that bullshit. I am an Anarchist-Communist, I'm anti-Syndicalism, anti-"Insurrectionism" (the anarkids who smash windows and declare victory), pro-Organizationalist, etc. Because all these things are a part of the wider anarchist tradition as a mass revolutionary Socialist movement.

    In theory you may want the abolition of the state, but in practice you uphold it. By making claims such as your idea that if the US demilitarized then North Korea would invade, uphold the idea that the revolution must be put off, or that some ideas are too "radical" for the present time. Your support of the pacifists (I forget if you are a fan of nonviolenve yourself, but I know you have backed them) also makes you a supporter of the state. By supporting the pacifists you enable them to do their favorite activity...absolutely nothing. Pacifism is just as reactionary as the very things the pacifists hold themselves against. Because to abhor all violence is to enable state violence because you offer no counter violence to challenge the authority of the state, thus granting it a monopoly on violence.

    I didn't say "liberal democratic", I said liberal "social democratic". Meaning you're happy with a state that may be better for the people by having more extensive programs and protecting the enviroment to an extent. But these politics and your politics are the politics of the petit bourgeoise. A class which you also find support in, nevermind that they have no revolutionary capability.

    Autonomism is something different from Anarchism. It's another attempt to blend Marxist theory with Anarchist practice, and find a "middle ground" (something the anarchist synthesists praise when done with other "anarchists"). It's just a reincarnation of what was called Sovietism in the 1920's, Left Communism in the 60's (excluding that of the Italian Communist Party's Left, where the tendency originated, the 60's is when it became an international tendency). The real differences are minor, and more based on tactical norms than theoretical differences in their conception of Socialism.
     
  19. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    No, more like ZOMG THEY SPEAK FRENCH IN QUEBEC.
     
  20. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChrist Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    They speak english in conneticut and you spelled "attach" wrong in your last post.

    And there's nothing wrong with being a pacifist, I don't feel the need to attack anybody under most means.
     
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