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Anarchy

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Anarcho-Communist, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. Anarcho-Communist

    Anarcho-CommunistMember Forum Member


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    Dec 22, 2009
     
    Now, we all are familiar with Anarchy I'm sure but recently i have been questioning whether or not it would work, and i believe that the way things (the world and its people in general) are today it wouldn't work, because we all even us those who claim to be anarchists are used to having certain liberties such as internet and a roof over our heads and such, and sure us anarchists would gladly embrace Anarchism but the people the general population would never embrace it they are too used to being told what they should do, told that what is right is that they get a job, pay your taxes, get married, have kids and we're all conditioned via the media and the government to believe that that's what's right and to change the minds of the people i believe is an impossible feet, excuse me if i'm being a bit negative here but i am just expressing my opinion venting i quess anyway your opinions would really be appreciated.
     

  2. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    choose yer battles kid
    anarchy wont happen overnight
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Uh, so what ?

    You think we would lose liberties with anarchism ?

    Like 10% of the population owns 90% of the wealth, there is no way in hell the lower classes would get more poor than they already are if the wealth and proprieties were collectivised and equally shared.

    Peoples wouldn't follow us because they are brainwashed thinking capitalism is the only system that can work. And also because most of them prefer to sit on their "liberties" and refuse to fight because "it's worse in other countries" or some bullshit like that. That's why sometimes the worst the government is, the better the revolt will be... If we look at history, there always been a precise situation before a revolution. If nothing happens, then the peoples think the system works...

    I'm conscious the probabilities of a revolution before i die are very low, but our objective as anarchists is to plant the seeds of the revolution.


    Anyway, a real anarchist revolution involve a majority of the people who participate to it and who want a revolution. Once that happens, then i guess we can say we got enough peoples and that anarchism will work
     
  4. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    Do you think anarchy could work with billions of people? That is the one thing I've never been able to fathom about anarchy... it just seems so impossible to peacefully live without any form of control (police, government) over 8 billion people. I mean, I understand the control without force concept, but what about those in society who would refuse to participate in it?
     
  5. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 3, 2009
     
    Not all anarchists embrace primitivism. Anarchism to me doesn't mean going back to basics and living in mud huts or whatever. The difference between our current economic system and an anarchist society would be that EVERYONE would have the liberty of having a roof over their head and even the internet, not just a small percentage of society.

    But as ungovernable said, we can only really have anarchism if everyone is in on it, it is a social theory (unless you are an individualist), therefore it relies on participation.

    It is a long fight and we more than likely won't see it before we die, but that doesn't mean we should lose hope, generations after us rely on our activism and outreach to help plant seeds.
     
  6. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I think it could work. Although I like the libertarian municipalism idea as put forward by Bookchin, which would definetely make things easier in my view.

    Capitalism, by its very definition, creates conflict which as a result leaves people out, which in turn leads them to crime. If we had a completely equal society based on solidarity and equality the crime rate would be almost non-existant. Sure there would probably still be some crime and the question is an interesting one. In an anarchist participatory society, how would we deal with the few people that may cause other peoples lives to be miserable?
     
  7. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    I actually didn't even think of the first point you made. That makes sense. But do you really think there would not be at least a small mob of people at some point sick of equality? I mean, isn't that how most shit starts?
    As for your second point, I'm very interested in opinions on that as well.
     
  8. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I'm not sure about a small mob being sick of equality. By sick of equality do you mean people wanting power for themselves etc? If so again we could look at the current social and economic structure which awards selfishness and greed over equity and solidarity, so people strive power to get ahead. In a participatory society there wouldn't be this drive to get ahead because there wouldn't be competition in the first place. I guess it comes down to the age old sociological debate about nature vs nurture.
     
  9. Wonder138

    Wonder138Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    in every utopia ever made in the history of time there is sumbody who gets greedy and want more then what is being equally shared sum go with the greedy the others stay with the one who want to stay the same and then mans sickness breaks in and we have a fuckin WAR
    we as anarchist(or at least me) dont want more then we need tho i have more then i need im willing to give it all up for equality

    now what i rely think is we need to rely bring this shit upfront and protest and demonstrate are ways as a whole think of every anarchist getting up and joining together and fighting for what we believe in we need to make it happen but it doesnt seem like wear doing any thing we should fuckin plan out a revolt of anarchist and slowly ppl will join us and we will be strong and we cloud bring the system down

    also we cloud always just get up and fuckin leave all the anarchist just go to sum random ass remote island or sumthing and just get away from it all but not let the above said happen that would work i think...
     
  10. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I sometimes have doubts concerning the general public and there opinions on anarchy. For example: when I tell a classmate that I am an anarchist they look at me like some ignorant bastard who just wants to see the world burn.I feel like anarchists have unintentionally built a wall dividing us and the people we wish to unite. A sort of chaotic facade. All to often do we (anarchists) state our opinions wearing a black ski mask. We've sort of fucked up our own PR haha.
     
  11. Wonder138

    Wonder138Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    ya thats ture i have the same thing happen there only ignorant
     
  12. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Why not ?

    But before thinking about how to do something that might require like 100 years of libertarian education, we must start somewhere

    But if you ask me personnaly, as an internationalist anarchist i think a permanent revolution MUST be international to work, especially if we are talking about a revolution in Canada or USA.

    In a post-revolutionary anarchist society, anarchism means auto management without hierarchy, by the peoples themselves. Those who disagree against the current politics just have to vote a reform in the assembly where decisions are taken...

    BEFORE the revolution, it's a class war period, sorry to sound radical but i don't give a shit about what the exploiters think about the collectivisation of the wealth and the expropriation of the bourgeoiserie. Well, As long as it is a SOCIAL revolution, and as long as a majority of the peoples want it...

    Like i said anarchism is only anarchism if a majority of the peoples want it. Or else it will become a communist dictatorship. So the peoples who are against anarchism should always be a minority...

    Sick of equality ? How can you get sick of equality ? That's like getting sick of being free...
    How could you get sick of not seeing anymore the greedy boss who makes millions while you get a few dollars per hours which is barely enough to live ? How could you get sick of having access to all services for free, not see povrety anymore, no more wars, no more police abusing their powers, no more politicians taking the decisions at your place, ...

    Only the bourgeoiserie could get sick of equality and anarchism...

    Sure there would be assholes who would take the power if we let anarchy become mindless chaos like we can see in some african countries, where a bunch of guerrilos fight against each others to claim the power while claiming to be "freedom fighters"..... But anarchism meaning order without power, it would be a collective responsability to fight against power hungry politicians.... After all, if we made a revolution against the state i'm pretty sure there will be a collective consciousness against power hungry peoples...


    it's not a war, it's a class war

    sure anarchists are against the wars, they want no war but the class war



    Dont forget, liberties aren't given - they must be taken. Anarchy isn't peace and love and yes we will going to have to fight (a class war) if we want to have equality and true anarchism
     
  13. sonny

    sonnyNew Member New Member


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    Dec 23, 2009
     
    anarchy will be harder to produce with higher concentrations of people. imagine living in a society with 20 people, it would be easier to say hey everyone do what you want no rules, just don't hurt anyone else, compared to a population of 200,000 in such a small area. not enough resources for everyone too live off of, people would turn to messing up other people's shit so yeah. anarchy is possible but it is hard to enforce. haha enforce
     
  14. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    I get a lot of arguments that if "anarchy" where to take affect, there would be a wave of violence and death because there are thousands of people on this earth who would take the opportunity of no government to kill each other, rape, pillage etc. etc. So... yea a pandemic is in order in my views because lets face it, there are a lot of shitty people on this earth.

    Starting little communities, communes etc. and having an autonomous atmosphere there i think could work. You just need to have protection as well.
     
  15. Jimmy DeLocke

    Jimmy DeLockeMember Forum Member


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    Dec 5, 2009
     
    People need to quit thinking about this as if it has some relation to the current status of society. Anarchy doesn't mean we'll all just sit around and do nothing cuz no one is making us work. There is already plenty of resources available on this earth and plenty of alternatives to destroying it. WE will have to decide what is more important to us and how WE are going to take care of ourselves. This means deciding on balances between production of goods and doing without. If you look at some revolutions(full-blown or only reformist) such as in Chile early 70s, Spain 30s, or the current situation in Argentina in which workers are taking over factories you would see that it is completely within reason to expect that people can take care of their needs without relying on bosses and bureaucrats.
    Another thing to think about is the fact that many people already agree with Anarchism in various forms, they just haven't connected some of the dots. Think about how many "normal" people talk shit about bosses, politicians and cops...a lot! Go talk to the mainstreamers once in a while. I like to start with simple stuff that people can relate to in their daily lives, things that people can quickly see how they ALREADY exert their own power and liberty without permission and especially in spite of laws and hierarchies. I currently work with a couple of collectives that involve people that aren't implicitly anarchist and guess what, things are going great! There are still some of us who do more of the work but that's because we exist in a capitalist world and some folks have more time than others and some are simply more committed to making these collectives awesome. We still bring all our shitty personal baggage but due to the cooperative nature things get worked out most of the time.
    As far as violence, there are millions of people currently employed/engaged in organized violence due to the battle for power. Some for their own autonomy, some for the power of the state. Do we really think that all these and MORE would engage in senseless violence if people were creating a world of autonomy and mutual-aid rather than capitalist based neo-liberalism?
    The world is basically fucked and has been for a while. It takes a lot of effort to implement anarchist principles and show people how things can operate for the better without the State but that's what we have to do- if we are anarchist and want real change. We must put ourselves at risk, we must be uncomfortable in order to directly confront contemporary power structures. And as Ungov said, we must continue to plant the seeds, without regard to whether we will ever get to see the fruits. :ecouteurs:
     
  16. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    My opinion on the subject... if you don't believe it will ever happen... then why are you on an anarcho message board? True it is not likely to happen in out lifetime, but if we care about the future, then our voices are not in vain.
     
  17. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    If this was directed at me at all, I'm here to understand anarchy better and how it could work. There are pieces I haven't put together that make me believe it won't happen, but in the short time I've been here I honestly believe in it much more. I've felt inspired since day one of joining.

    And thanks ungovernable for explaining all that.
     
  18. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    Anarchism doesn't mean Primitivism, Primitivism is reactionary, and an irrelavent belief considering its only adherants are US/UK kids and an old hippie. Anarchists have nothing against technology.

    I'm sure there's a Happy Feet pun here, but I'm not grasping it.

    You need to stop viewing society as something alien, or acting like people are going to reject something because of conditioning. If Anarchism is to be rejected it is because it is either misunderstood, or a threat to the livelyhood of the the rejector (a bourgeois or politician, for instance). Because you're an Anarchist you're not more enlightened than anyone else, or some anti-social phrase like "seen through the bullshit". It just means you're someone who recognized that the destruction of Capitalism is the best decision for yourself and for the working class.

    Why do you not want people to get married, have kids, or work? 2/3 are necassary, and marriage is a cultural value, and culture can't be destroyed (granted, the religious aspects could be removed, but that's really getting sidetracked).
     
  19. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    just a general hypothetical... I understand people come here to learn and form their own opinions, but if they draw a conclusion that they don't think it will work, ever happen, or is worth their effort, then I don't know why they would stick around here... I don't find other people's negativity very exciting unless it is constructive.
     
  20. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I, for one, am a great supporter of technology. Technology can be quite easily used to empower the masses and create international networks over distances that are unfathomable by some of the older generations.
    As for anarchy working? I'm not really sure how or if it will work, I'm not even sure if I'll see it happen... but it can't be much worse than this now can it? That's why I'd like to at least try and if it should fail, which I don't really think will happen unless someone screws up, we can tick the box off on our alternatives list, I guess.
    'If you don't shoot, you'll never hit anything' (free translation of Dutch saying).
     
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