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ANARCHSIM- For The Fringe or to the Mainstream?

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by Anxiety69, Apr 29, 2010.

  1. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ok, I want some opinions on this thought. My opinion is the only way we can ever achieve anarchy is to get it to be a mainstream ideal instead of just a fringe and cultish one. Whenever a band with an anarcho leanings gets even the slightest bit mainstream, they get poo poo'd by our scene, but isn't spreading the message more important then keeping a reputation among the punk scene? Seriously, shouldnt we be trying to get people involved that aren't just punks?
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    if you want to reach a large audience, write books.

    Or make more popppish music like chumbawamba did

    anarcho-punk scene is and always been non-mainstream, and i see it more as "unity songs" rather than propaganda to convert peoples... after all it's only music...
     
  3. Carlos

    CarlosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    sure mainstream bands and music artist have a wider range of audience, but these bands would have to be politically active and since they would probably be making lots of money it would be a good idea if they donated this money to great causes and not just keep it for themselves.

    if not we would just have a capitalist band preaching anarchy, how would that make sense?
     
  4. Bunny

    BunnyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I think Anxiety is right in that we have to make the movement a more mainstream if we ever want to achieve it. But it doesn't have to just be done through art.
    While music and visual art are great ways to get people intrigued, they shouldn't be the main way that a movement becomes mainstream. They should reenforce ideas and inspire people to think. People should want to become a part of a movement based on actions and philosophy. Writing a book that appeals to the mainstream while retaining the philosophy will help convert, if you will, everyday people. Also actions go a long way. More people will be willing to rethink their stance if they see what being a part of this movement is about. It could be something as simple as bring a friend along to help with a community garden and explain why that's better then going to a chain supermarket.

    Carlos is right; however even if they did give the money to different causes and stay true to their message, most people will not listen to it, or not fully understand what the song means.
     
  5. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    hmm but then when does a certain amount of money bevome bad. when is working ahrd for your dollar turn into a capitalist? if say a band started going mainstream and they started making a bit more money. how much does the band have to be making before they have broken anarchist rules? im not trying to be sarcastic. at what point is the money a person make to much and then they should be expected to donate to some charety or wtv they choose?
     
  6. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Anarchism won't be mainstream until its not identified as anarchism anymore. The word is ruined. Furthermore, the focus needs to be anti aggression, not so much anti state or anti capitalism, but with connections always being made to the violent aggression in all the state does. Most people understand its wrong to steal, its wrong to use violence to control others, its wrong to use violence to provide special privilege for some at the expense of others, but most do not make the connection that those are things the state is doing, and what they are doing through their votes and the state actions they advocate. When people start to see the violence that is always existent in every state action, and that knowledge becomes common place, authoritarian government as we have it today will go away. Just like chattel slavery was common place and commonly accepted for thousands of years, only to becoming commonly seen as immoral in the past few hundred years, slavery through the state will also pass. But only when the veil of legitimacy is removed from the fictions known as governments and it is commonly accepted that morally, violence should only be used in response to violence.
     
  7. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    yes but i didn't mean music specificly, that was just one example.I feel like, it's great for us to talk and share ideas here, but aren't we really just preaching to the choir so to speak? Should we be trying to get others involved and if so how should we be going about doing it? I for one would like to see anarchism somehow set into motion, but thats not going to happen by only talking about it to other like minded people.
     
  8. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 22, 2009
     
    Fuck getting other people involved. I'm just doing this to piss off my parents and have an excuse to smell bad.
    /sarcasm
    But honestly don't you feel that a lot of people are part of this only because it goes against what is considered normal and seems pretty rebellious... It just seems to me that a lot of anarcho punks are only considering themselves anarchists because they want to rebel against the current state of the world rather then because they have the spirit to start a new one. They would burn a bank, but they wouldn't help me put solar panels on my shack. Know what I mean?
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    funding anti-capitalism with capitalism.......

    we don't need money to fight capitalism, we need active militants.

    Yup, and its not like punk music is good propaganda that reach everybody.... most of the peoples don't give a shit about the lyrics, they listen to the music just because it sounds cool.

    If we make a mainstream anarcho punk band and it gets famous, then yes maybe some peoples will pay attention to the lyrics and start saying it's cool to be an anarchist, but they will not do it because they understand anarchism and agree with it but only because they like the band and they want to follow the trend and be cool. We can already observe this stupid thing in the punk movement, lots of peoples claim themselbes as anarchist only to be cool and punk, so just immagine what would happen if some popular band would sing anbout anarchy....... Just immagine Green Day being real anarchists, it would be a disaster and anarchy would become the new trend to follow... ewwww

    We need to convice peoples by words and readings, not because it's cool to be an anarchist and because its the trend to follow cuz it's so famous and mainstream.

    Thinking anarchism would become popular and peoples would follow it just because it's mainstream and because peoples see it on TV sounds like a capitalist way of thinking...

    Maybe we could pay ourself an Ad spot at the superbowl and talk about anarchism ? :lmao: or maybe an anarchist talk show @ CNN.... j/k :p


    At the first dollar of profit. Anarchism is activism, not something you're supposed to turn into profit and live out of it...

    I understand some bands make reasonnable profit but it's not something i support... i won't go call themselves fake anarchists, but as long as they're not mainstream and makes a TON of money

    Since you're talking about this website...

    We attract peoples with the music, they come for the bands they like and then learn about anarchism because it is an anarchist forum. It is a very great way of making punks become active militants, we already had big success with Pirate-punk.net and are trying to do the same here. Even with Resistance.tk, our forum strictly about anarchist, at the begginning we attracted peoples with music.

    If peoples are serious about liking anarcho-punk, there is a great potential that they might start to learn about anarchism. As for myself, punk scene influenced me a lot to learn about anarchism so now i'm trying to do the same with others...


    +1

    immagine how worse it would be if anarchism was mainstream...
     
  10. Arjay691

    Arjay691Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Why would anarcho-punk, crust, etc, go mainstream to get a bigger audience? They need to expand the underground, not join the mainstream. If you expand the underground, you'll get more anarchists. By going mainstream, you'll just be talked down on. Take Marilyn Manson for an example.
     
  11. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    so far i am disapointed, i was not saying anarcho punk bands should go mainstream, but was inferring that anarchsim needs to be embraced by more then just the small fringe group that believes in it if it had any chance at all of becoming reality. The only way it even has a chance is to have lots of people on board, and the attitude i am sensing is kind of snobbish, like we were into the idea of anarchism first so screw everyone else, and that is not how a revolution is started. So far it seems people are more content with being 'different' then actually making the chance of anarchism reality, and frankly that is not what I am about. Yes i like being part of this community, but i'd rather see the world wake up and change other then just reading people complaining that nothing ever changes, when they aren't willing to spread the ideals or get others involved. Just hoping in vain for a change is pathetic, and it's what the system wants us to do.
     
  12. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    i'm pretty sure we all agree that we must not only preach to converted peoples... i'm pretty much into the whole "popular education" thing, i always debate with peoples against my ideology to counter-argument their arguments against anarchism and i try to wake up the ppl...

    but as for anarchism going more popular ...... how ? we must all do our parts and talk to other peoples...

    but the main fact is still that peoples aren't totally sick of the government so thats why anarchism is unpopular. If you look at history it's always when things are the worst and when there is the worst tyrans in power that the peoples finally realize we need a revolution. when this day comes again, then the peoples will start turning to anarchist, just like the spanish revolution needed the dictator Franco to revolt

    when peoples have a decent quality of life and THINK they are free, then they don't want to revolt because they say "it's worse in other countries so we are happy and lucky here" and sit on their little comfort
     
  13. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    There might be hope for you, yet.
     
  14. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    yes therein lies the big question... how? This is something i think we need to discuss, argue about, share ideas about as passionately as arguing some of the lighter topics :) (not a dig, just the truth)
     
  15. Protspecd

    ProtspecdExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Extremely true, I think the mentality of the cultures we live in is pretty much, don't like the government? Protest against them then wait till next election to get the 'better' guy in!

    Personally I believe it could be spread throughout music, even if the music is more pop or even RnB! (I hate that genre of music) But if it they were getting the message throughout their songs and they didn't hoard the income they got and spread most of the profits. Yeah, most likely that wont happen but if it did I would be happy. Guess what I am trying to say is, I am against keeping it 'elite' in the punk culture. In the society we have today, we must change the people before you tear down the government otherwise everyone will just revert back to the structure we have today. If that means 'selling out' but still trying to educate the general public through popular music then I am all for it. Maybe not even have songs directly related to Anarchism to avoid the trend issue, but have songs heavily promote equality and promoting ideas against the government without naming Anarchy. Let them find it. Eh, just my opinion..
     
  16. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I have an idea! First we need to find an anarchist hypnotist, then we put on a big Las Vegas show (will be no problem to do so having a hypnotist and all), then during the show the hypnotist will hypnotise the entire audience and make them anarchists, and eventually we can take the show on the road and spread it world wide!
    Just kidding. Unless you happen to know a hypnitist cos then it could be worth a try.
    Or if we had what we need to clone ourselves, that would increase the amount of anarchists in the world, yet keep it the same people so it wouldn't be a trend.
    Or if we had a specific kind of scientist among us, who could find the anarcho-gene, then he or she could create that gene artificially and implant it in embryos, that would of cos take a while with waiting for those babys to grow up and all but waiting for something good you know... Don't worry, there wouldn't be any animal testings in this, most the tests would be performed on politicians and other overpayed examples of the upper classes.
    Hidden messages in songs is of cause a classic but it's fun.
    That's what i had for now, idea wise.
     
  17. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    i think we need to start being publicly assaulted and beaten up for our beliefs, let the people see how appalling it is when a brute force state picks on unarmed people in front of the camera. (hey it worked for Rodney King.)
     
  18. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Don't know if getting beaten up will actually help so much, just look at what went down in Copenhagen in december. Lots of people say the danish police overreacted and don't support how they handled the situation but most will still believe there was a situation for the police to handle and they believe what the police say happened rather then what a bunch of anarchists says anyway.
    Most of the regular people don't know what anarchism is and the only things they think they know is what they've heard on tv or read in the newspapers, so they aren't very likely to go look for a book on the subject either. Why would they want to read about what we think, we who are just a bunch of rebelling teenagers going through a weird fase, or we who are a danger to society, or even we who just doesn't understand how reality works? If we get beaten up they will still deep down think we had done something to deserve it and that it would never happen to them, with their security cameras and their neighbourhood watch signs.
    If i would believe it would do any good i'd see to that i'd get beaten up right away but seeing how the masses are still thinking the police and the state will keep them safe, i don't see much reason for it.
    No, i don't have a solution either or even a better idea at this point but i hope we can find something out together here.
     
  19. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Just one of the many contradictions in anarcho punk, preaching to the converted. Another favourite of mine: bands telling people to be themselves. But anyway, not really sure that the purpose is to spread a message, and convert the world by what is a little too close to brain washing for my liking. Artists write cos they have a need to, others hear and take strength from that. It's something to rally around. Before I heard any this stuff, I felt isolated, alone. It helps a great deal to know that you are not, and no matter how underground, it will still be noticed, if not actively sought out, by those who are just starting to wake up.
     
  20. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    I for one tell every person I know or work with what my beliefs are and also am forever pointing out the disparities in the classes. Some think I'm nuts, others think they need to pray for me, and yet others, who are the furthest thing from punks, are intrigued and agree with some of my anarchist viewpoints. I don't know if anyone here is forced to listen to the radio like I am when I'm in my work truck during the day but a few of the mainstream bands are subliminaly pushing anarchistic rhetoric and it makes me giggle to myself because my ears are specially atuned to the language. So Anxiety I think that there are musicians out there who aren't punks who do espouse Anarchism as a belief system but aren't averse to making a buck while doing it, sounds like an oxymoron doesn't it?
     
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