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Anarcho christianity

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by Elgeeto, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. Elgeeto

    ElgeetoMember Forum Member


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    Jun 29, 2015
     
    Pdfs on christian anarchism
    I'm Interested in mixing christianity and anarchism into a kind of existential philosophy/belief system. I want to paint pictures of biblical rebels and punks calling the shots in history, exposing the insane changes modern figures endear to the characters and attitudes of the bible, who were all really righteous people before their names and ideas were given different voices by confused and also bitter peoples. Stressing less on organization and more on personal philosophy about howbwe interact with authority on personal levels -- how not to take crap with moral footing!

    Anyone know any good starts on my ideal? Pdf's or music or w/e?
     

  2. RememberGlencoe

    RememberGlencoeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    May 12, 2014
     
    well, you'd really want to explore some early Christian groups, I know that during the Roman persecution they tended to live very communally and closer to the actual teachings of Jesus. Maybe you could take a look at the writings of Justin Martyr for some perspective on this.
    Also, look into "heretic" sects, a lot of these groups found themselves banned more for making the mainstream look bad, rather than actually doing anything wrong. Look into the Cathars of France, who were slaughtered for the sins of actually giving a shit about the 10 commandments and treating women like people.
    The Donatist heretics might also be worth looking into.
    You should really take a look into figuring out what version of the bible you trust the most, though. The King James version is downright crap. Even after accounting for translation. So inaccurate. Trust no one when researching bible versions; everyone's got an agenda. Learning classical Greek won't even help that much.
    You won't find many Christians here, though. Which isn't to say there aren't Christian punks, there are. They just don't really mingle with the rest of us punks, and not just because of all the mutual iconoclasm. Here's the Wiki article on all that, sounds like a bunch of bands have really similar ideas to yours:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_punk
    don't forget to study non-Christian anarchism, though. We've got links, literature, and downloads everywhere here. It's worth it poking around the site for even if you don't agree with us on everything
     
  3. DeadChannel

    DeadChannelExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Sep 16, 2014
     
    Okay, how the actual fuck does religion give you any type of moral footing?

    Taking your morals from a book that was written 2000 years before you were born by a bunch of seriously fucked up, homophobic, misogynistic, often racist individuals is not morality. It's just following rules.
     
  4. RememberGlencoe

    RememberGlencoeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    May 12, 2014
     
    I'm no fan of religion myself, Christianity especially. You touched upon quite a lot of valid points of contention to have with it.
    That said, I don't see how this criticism is relevant. Anarchy and religion inspired this guy to want to make the world a better place, he's more likely to succeed at doing that if we help him, rather than hiss and boo because we don't fully agree with him on everything. Christianity is mostly evil, but not fully. It has some wise words amongst all the fire and brimstone bullshit, lessons worth learning from. To not judge, to hold on to your integrity in the face of adversity, to be kind to the weak and humble. If someone puts the good things about it to good use, good. Better than nothing, which is all arguing will get us.
    We're all friends here, yeah? :beer:
     
  5. DeadChannel

    DeadChannelExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Sep 16, 2014
     
    Sure, I agree with the op about Anarchy, but that doesn't mean that I'll bow to any asininity that is posted.

    And anyway, while I don't agree with religion, I don't have a problem with people doing things I disagree with. What I do have a problem with is suggestions of a moral high ground. Any argument that I've been able to find regarding the supposed superiority of biblical morality seems logically fallacious and dependant on strawmaning secular morals. Add on top on that the sort of hypocrisy that is revealed by looking at the immoral history of religion, as well as the sort of fucked up shit that's made it's way into the bible itself (read the book! Don't just let your preacher feed you the happy clappy Jesus loves everyone version!), and I get a little pissed.
     
  6. RememberGlencoe

    RememberGlencoeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    May 12, 2014
     
    Now, while I agree that biblical morality is inferior (you should be good without needing to be threatened with eternal damnation), I don't think that OP was implying the opposite. The wording of his post was really awkward and I think the last part of his main paragraph, the point of contention here, isn't quite what it sounds like to you.
    It sounds like OP just bases his morals in his faith. Fin. So morality is one with his Christian beliefs to him. There's no comparison to other systems of right and wrong going on, just a desire to make it fit with anarchism.
    After all, we don't use other people's moral beliefs to make our decisions, I'm not going to think of anything as being moral unless it fits my moral criteria, no matter what the next guy thinks of it.
     
  7. Elgeeto

    ElgeetoMember Forum Member


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    Jun 29, 2015
     
    I think some kind of faith is necessary if you're not to espouse behavorism and treat everything like the sad result of response conditioning. Mechanized reality to no end except industrial prowress -- heartless. You gotta see that its' machines taking away your control and sanity, sure there's more amenities but that won't stop you from just having more kids to drain the surplus.

    I made a fargone cartoon where I called the author of the new testament reptyhellfreepeeo, since the gospels of jesus christ were released around the time that running water was starting to get popular. I should re-do that for a zine someday.

    As far as calling "biblical morality inferior", what better suits the proverbial acid test of society? What are anarchist ethics or morality, how to they contrast the bible's?

    "qestions of a moral high ground"

    Yes its' quite possible that bullies and the mob have used religion to strongarm you out of stuff. What do you consider has possibly happened to them? Granted their is a truer following with nought the clout nor power nor responsibility of the bullies and contrarians who run the churches, but their is their ideas and faith, and that's a really solid in of itself powerful thing.
     
  8. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    If you don't know what they are, how can you consciously make a decision on following "Christianity's" almost 100% borrowed morality?
     
  9. Elgeeto

    ElgeetoMember Forum Member


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    Jun 29, 2015
     
    here's my own personal crackpot version of christianity

    Speech of praise for reptillian overlords El Geetos address https://youtu.be/vgu4LsTcQWY


    How christianity works with this model of the reptillian overlords working under the Elohim.

    "A tale of intergallactic woe, The Risperidone, an alien race older than time, launched a regenerable sleeper mission to earth millions of years ago. At first, their primary objective was to make first contact with that other reptillian race known to us as "The Dinosaurs", but to the Risperidone as "Kejjum".



    Once a third of the way here, it was discovered that the dinosaurs had perished by way of asteroid collision, but what was worse, their home planet had just suffered an identical fate -- an inexplicable coincidence. Fortunately! A large portion of their aristocracy made it into space arks beforehand.



    When the mission to Earth to earth finally arrived, it was prepared in 7 days (mostly just magnetising carbon out of the atmosphere)) according to the directives of their highest priests, whom were in contact and acting under the advisement of The Elohim, an ultraspace race the Risperidone both feared and respected. What followed was then the introduction of hybrid dna life forms to Earth under the direction of the Risperidone religious clergy.



    All life is driven by mediumspace soulstructures which inhabit the physical forms of all organic life. Thus, the souls of the Risperidones' homeworld's dead were directed gradually into the species which thrive on this here sphere, our planet Earth.



    Around (so many) millions of years ago the technology to move their spaceships through artificial wormholes was developed, and the drive of monkeys to evolve into intelligent people was pushed ahead with the participation of the Risperidone as tactile holograms (or more likely, putting us in a computer program /edit) of other monkeys, from the projections of their spacecraft in orbit.



    The Risperidone holograms are everywhere trying to extrapolate information about the Elohim from us human genetic experiments, entertaining in ways the Risperidone find tedious ways of communicating with that ultraspace race, the Elohim.



    Is it really the Risperidone's creation in which we live, or is it God's (the Elohim's [pertaining to all judeo christian holy spirits]) creation? It's likely that they know more through extrapolation about them than we do through intrinsic soulform/physical bodily combinationism.



    May we one day know the body of the Elohim, and all the wisdom of the Risperidone." IWOTR

    Read more: http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/ ... ths-matrix
     
  10. pizzapirat

    pizzapiratMember Forum Member


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    Jan 28, 2014
     
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doukhobor

    straight edge, anti-monogamy, iconoclasts, war rejectors, stemming from russia, many times internally deported, loved by tolstoi and kropotkin, most were expelled to canada (early 1900s) where they burned schools their children were put into, rejected naturalisation and did nude protests each time one of them was arrested (until canada forbade public nudity with 3! yrs penalty)

    finally split up into 3 schisms of which the most radical "svobodniki" rejected private property until the 1970s

    too bad for them they were religious...
     
  11. Anarchowithoutcapitalism

    AnarchowithoutcapitalismMember New Member


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    Peter Maurin, Dorothy Day, and the Catholic Worker group are Christian Anarchists. Leo Tolstoy was a Christian Anarchist as well. What sort of economy do they advoate? Day, one for the founders of the Catholic Worker group discussed a sort of Anarcho-Distributivism. In actuality it is essentually the economic Mutualism of the Anarcho-Mutualist Proudhon, however the term distributivism has its roots in Christian background hence they used that term. Another interchangable term the Catholic Anarchists like Day and Maurin used was the term personalism which to them was an alternative name to anarchism. In the book On Pilgrimage by Day they describe a voluntary society based on self employed individuals, decentralization, and co-operative factories and businesses (ie. market socialist society which is essentially the same as Proudhon's Mutualism. See Proudhon's General Idea of Revolution in the Nineteenth Century) Personally I like Catholic Anarchist beliefs and find the views helpful in my life. I hope this is helpful.
     
    ScottO likes this.
  12. ScottO

    ScottOMember Forum Member


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    Look up Gerrard Winstanley (17th century agitator who drew heavily on the bible and very much fits the OP's interests).

    While I'm sympathetic to the critique about "borrowed morality," there is no single christian morality--the history of the Reformation, for instance, includes groups that very much appear as anti-statist communists (I'm thinking here of anabaptists and familists, but there are many others), and there is a strain of Catholicism that overlaps significantly with socialism (liberation theology, RH Tawney). Obviously today christianity has been subsumed by nationalism and capitalism, but the OP's ideas pose an interesting subversion of that.
     
  13. cod3z3ro

    cod3z3roNew Member New Member


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    Nov 1, 2018
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    I can't understand why you would want to include Christianity into your life, Anarchism is all about ridding the world of oppression whether it be from government or in this case a made up deity with the only purpose of controlling through fear. Personally I don't get it, as the tag line goes "No Gods, No Masters" it's hard enough to promote anarchism to the mainstream public as a viable way of life without confusing the issue by adding religion into the mix, as you are saying we don't want to be controlled by governments but we do want to be controlled by God, the bible is only a set of stories passed down from generation to generation much like the fairy tales of Hans Christian Anderson (no pun intended).
     
    NihilVeritasEst likes this.
  14. Anarchowithoutcapitalism

    AnarchowithoutcapitalismMember New Member


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    If you are interested in more information about the roots of Catholic Anarchism (which the Catholics would call personalist distributism) and how their anarcho-distributist economy would work here's an article about it from the anarchistnews site:

    Maurin, Day, the Catholic Worker Group, and Anarcho-Distributism | anarchistnews.org
     

8 members have read this thread this month

  1. cod3z3ro
  2. Charger Bullet
  3. Red Menace
  4. Hent
  5. punkmar77
  6. NihilVeritasEst
  7. Anarchowithoutcapitalism
  8. ScottO
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