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Anarchists on welfare

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by Tom Pirate, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You might make it disappear within a "bubble" for example in a squat that is fully self sustaining, or a grouping of squats, or in some land take over, but outside the perimeter, it will be there waiting to attack and get rid of the example you are setting.

    So one must also think of attacking the mofo with some super kung fu moves :D

    While also establishing other "bubbles" that can sustain themselves and attack :ecouteurs:
     
  2. Tom Pirate

    Tom PirateMember Forum Member


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    I suppose "abuse" wasn't the right word. I'm not entirely sure what i meant, but I guess what I mean is you shouldn't ignore the negative ramifications of it. It's definitely supporting the state by using it, and that's not something that should be justified from an anarchist perspective. If someone is going to use it, that should be acknowledged.
     
  3. kad budu gorjeli gradovi

    kad budu gorjeli gradoviExperienced Member Experienced member


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    depends on a job. some jobs are tolerable some are just made to turn you into mindless slave. but anyways is not true. with a job you can save some money and try to gain economical sustainabillity. on welfare, you cant do much about nothing.
     
  4. crustybeckham

    crustybeckhamExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 22, 2012
     
    Only if it is on a massive scale as part of a global protest movement. If you are thinking about general strikes or a movement that would have people refusing to pay their rent then obviously it can be effective. But if you are on your own, you are the only one affected when you choose to be on the dole or not. Deciding not to benefit from welfare (be it unemployment benefits, food stamps or rent help) might be the noble thing to do as anarchist, but for countless people it would just mean not being able to afford food and rent. Beside, it is not even taking stuff for free as these things are paid for by the taxes that we all pay. When you work, a substantial part of your wage goes to the state. In fact, as soon as you spend some money, a part of it goes back directly to the state.

    You say that it is preferrable to save money when you have a job in order to gain economic sustainibility but that's can be done only if you earn enough money to afford saving some. I know I couldn't.
     
  5. kad budu gorjeli gradovi

    kad budu gorjeli gradoviExperienced Member Experienced member


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    i dont believe in protests. just self-organisation and economical independence can do the job, all the rest is useless.
     
  6. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Taking money from the state doesn't necessarily mean you have to depend on it; that depends on yourself, you can still have a job at the same time where you don't pay tax - do illegal work, sell weed, get a tattoo gun, whatever...
     
  7. IamMe

    IamMeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    its hard to live without the system cos you need money to be free, sadly. threr is a commune not far from me people there live in tipis n such and most of them are on job seekers allowence (the dole) they need money for shit like waterproofs food in the winter n other essentials requierd for living out doors. unless ur born into a rich family your fucked u gota go throuh the system to get out the other end. A GOOD DOCUMENTRY ABOUT LIVING IN THE UK FREE FROM THE SYSTEM IS CALLED THE POWER OF MI. \m/
     
  8. NomadicAnarchy

    NomadicAnarchyMember New Member


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    haha well mr. informative let me tell you something... you clearly act as if you have something to prove and one-up on people. when i simply stated i had no personal attack on you but your comment was pretty hollow, just like your previous one. People who need to quote or refer to OTHERS ideals usually are those that cannot think for themselves. i'm sorry for you...brother. i hope some day you learn to use what you have to your advantage. that's called survival. try living homeless for a while, maybe you'll figure it out the hard way.
     
  9. Montipithon

    MontipithonMember New Member


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    I have to agree with Kad Budu. I mean if you are utilizing the positive benefits of a government while simultaneously raging against all the rest, you're kind of being whiny. A democratic society is built on John Locke's theory of the social contract, a.k.a. the idea that everyone enters into a contract when they become part of a mutually beneficial society because they have to be responsible in some degree for the collective whole when they are reaping the benefits of it. If you're taking the good parts of a government (ie. welfare) then you're accepting the contract. It's also a bit different than having a job, because in that case you are at least independent of the government. Ultimately the taxes you pay become payment for goods and services provided by the government (for example, roads, fire safety, healthcare in some places). So to me it doesn't make sense for someone who believes in the principles of anarchy to live on welfare.

    To respond to the argument that said "i'd rather steal from the government than let them steal from me." I disagree completely. If we really want to say that we believe in the principles of anarchy we have to stop addressing it like a bunch of street thugs and approach it from a moral high ground. Stealing is bad, whoever it's from. So instead of justifying it by saying the system is a gigantic asshole, let's stop sinking to its level.
     
  10. NomadicAnarchy

    NomadicAnarchyMember New Member


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    Jan 1, 2013
     
    doing nothing does not change the system. also, one thing i knew i would run into on this site. is a bunch of assholes with their own definitions of anarchy (including myself) so really, this debate can go on and on and on, but our views remain the same. if you disagree, that's cool i respect that. but, i think i made my point. don't like it? don't care.
     
  11. kad budu gorjeli gradovi

    kad budu gorjeli gradoviExperienced Member Experienced member


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    i dont think anarchism and ethics have something in common. at last not in society we live in. ethic principles dont exist in nature. other creatures kill each other, steal from each other and so on. its called survival. the fact we dont like it doenst mean we can do anything about this.
    ethic principles mean something only inside real natural community, in which all people used to live in, before they have been enslaved by state. in those communities most important rule was : do what you want as long as it doesnt endanger community. members who wouldnt follow this rule would be expelled. and out there in real world its much easy to survive if youre 100 than if youre one. thats where ethic principles make sense.
    today, its hard to say does anything makes sense except working in direction of liberation out of this system. and this as i said is possible only through economical independence. if you produce all you need, youre already almost free from system (except if it uses violence against you).
    if many people do this in same time, system just stops working and collapses in itself.
     
  12. IamMe

    IamMeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i totally agree with Kad budu every one needs to grow there own whether that be food or weed or purchase from small business that dont support the system. the only wealth should be knowledge and practical skills.
     
  13. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well, we're not all green anarchists here so we will probably never agree on whether we should go back to the primitive or not, personally I disagree that everyone has to start living purely off nature to be a "real" anarchist. Obviously very few of us(western civilization) know how to survive in nature, especially in winter, and another thing I really don't like about it is the fact that some of you don't give a shit about people that need medical support to survive(the whole overpopulation argument is pure BS).

    To me, whether you're on the dole or have a job, you are part of the system.
     
  14. kad budu gorjeli gradovi

    kad budu gorjeli gradoviExperienced Member Experienced member


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    i dont think you can be anarchist if you dont respect nature.

    you can always learn. i learn all the time. from growing food, building house and making clothes to weapons and self-defense.

    medical support is just another excuse to maintain the system. i dont have medical insurence. if im sick i look for medication by myself.


    im part of system because nobody asked me would i like it or not. if i could choose for sure i wouldnt take it.
     
  15. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Until you can levitate... :ecouteurs:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    that guy owes me a pack of smokes :/
     
  17. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Of course we have to respect nature, I still fail to see why we'd have to turn back time to do so.
    Could you tell someone ill that its okay for them to die for the sake of your political views, and do you think you would hold the same views you have now if you were born with a chronic disease? There are countless ways you can get a disease, not all of them can be blamed on the person that is sick nor society.
    Medicine is not an excuse to keep the system alive. We live in 2013, you don't have to die of petty infections anymore, or during child birth, or by any other preventable disease. Medicine and science can live perfectly well outside the system. Its not like "democracy" and capitalism was some godsend that came before anything else.

    Aw, shit :/
     
  18. kad budu gorjeli gradovi

    kad budu gorjeli gradoviExperienced Member Experienced member


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    @nclpw,

    look man, for me anarchism means this: or you are or youre not. simple as that. or you except the system (in which case you take all the shit it serves you and not complain, not to mention play anarchist), or you reject the system, in which case it usualy means youre life will be nothing but constant struggle, and still theres biggest chance you will not see f of freedom youre struggling for.
    and ofcourse it means if youre sick you will have to take care of yourself, just like all the other craeatures out there in real world do. i dont give a fuck whos sick whose not, thats not my business. just like i dont expect help from nobody if i am.
    people maybe dont die from infections, but they die from bombs, so whats the point???
     
  19. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    @ kad budu gorjeli gradovi

    Can you levitate?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. kad budu gorjeli gradovi

    kad budu gorjeli gradoviExperienced Member Experienced member


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    no but i can survive without welfare.
     
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