Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

An Anarcho-communist critique of some aspects of early CrimethInc.

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by SenI, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. SenI

    SenIExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    237

    0

    10

    Oct 4, 2009
     Russian Federation
    A critique of early CrimethInc. writings, written by one of the libcom group between 2005 and 2006 attacking its lifestylist elements and arguing for a class struggle perspective.

    [​IMG]

    In the end we never put it online, as we had more pressing things to deal with and kind of forgot about it. We decided to put it up now (2011) due to a question on our forums asking about people's critiques of CrimethInc..

    Initially this article was intended as a critique of CrimethInc. as a whole, however in several of the key areas at which our critique was aimed, particularly with regard to dropping out, CrimethInc. now state they have changed their views. We have therefore renamed the article to reflect the now very limited nature of our comments.1

    Introduction

    A spectre is haunting the world today: the spectre of crime think, and the underground front which heralds it. 2

    Or is it?

    CrimethInc. is a informally organised anarchist network in the United States. Originally an independent record label, it emerged from the American so-called “hardcore” punk scene. Since the mid-1990s it started become a proto-activist group, eventually gaining some worldwide notoriety with the publication of a best-selling book, Days of War, Nights of Love – an introduction to Crimethink (DoW, NoL). Since then they have published other books, multiple issues of a theoretical newspaper, Harbinger, several websites and even 250,000 copies of a free introduction to anarchism in magazine format, called Fighting for our Lives.

    With its poetic language, high-quality graphic design, punky-DIY aesthetic and large amounts of publishing cash – presumably from the commercial success of DoW, NoL – CrimethInc. has quickly become one of the most influential anarchist groups in the US, and probably the most well-known group in the English-speaking world.

    While these there are impressive feats, and have probably spread their ideas to the American public more effectively than any libertarian group has since the days of the Industrial Workers of the World, are they something to be cheerful about? Have they aided the spread of the fundamental anarchist ideas – of working class self-organisation and direct action to improve our lives and our planet?

    Unfortunately, as we will explain, we believe the answer to be a resounding “no”.

    What do they believe?3

    Ideas

    The basic aims of CrimethInc. are anarchist. That is they, like we at libcom.org, want a world based on not wage labour, profit and government but on co-operation, equality and the ability to live out our dreams and desires, not waste our lives in pointless jobs.

    Laudably, CrimethInc. do not waste large amounts of time discussion a post-revolutionary utopia. Unlike many on the left they do not concentrate on esoteric third world crusades, but on everyday Western lives and concerns. Their denunciation of the soul-destroying work we spend the majority of our lives in the West, and their illumination of the creative and joyful possibilities of free humanity are both refreshing and inspiring.

    However, the methods they put forward as ways of getting to this new world are we believe for the most part ineffective, and in the worst cases are highly counter-productive. CrimethInc. as an organisation has some deeply flawed, and other deeply disturbing aspects as well. We will go into these instances in more detail later.

    These un- or counter-productive suggestions and actions stem from a number of underlying assumptions and attitudes which beset much of the modern-day anarchist and general “activist” movement, particularly in the English-speaking world.

    They claim to be the successors of the Situationists, an international group of revolutionaries founded in France in the 1960s, who developed a critique of the boredom and alienation of everyday life of workers in the West, despite our relative wealth compared to previous generations. In fact CrimethInc. even state that they “go further" than the Situationists4. The accuracy of this claim is highly debatable, and we will deal with it later as well.

    What tactics do they propose?

    CrimethInc.’s basic way of fighting capitalism they outline is very simple – you drop out. Give up your job, and instead live by a combination of shoplifting, squatting, scamming, and “dumpster-diving”. Dumpster diving means taking rubbish from bins, usually commercial, which in the US often have large amounts of still-useable produce in.

    In their various publications they also espouse numerous other activities, such as vandalism of corporate and government property, and violence on political demonstrations. Their general writings fit into the category of individualist anarchism

    These things in themselves are not technically bad. While not revolutionary in themselves, dropping out of society and living by thrift or doing graffiti can be enjoyable for some people. People should of course be free to live their lives in any way they please. What is so damaging about CrimethInc., however is not that they say that dropping out is something certain people can do to improve their lives, but that it is something that everyone must do.

    Some in CrimethInc. have long denied this (although in personal conversations with individual CrimethInc. supporters it has always been obvious that they do look down on anyone who has not dropped-out) but finally with the production of the most recent issue of Harbinger (#5) which they were making for two-and-a-half years they have finally admitted what we suspected to be true – that dropping out is inherently revolutionary, and that any aspects of a normal life, like a job, a house, paying rent, buying any material goods are inherently counter-revolutionary.

    In their article outlining their way to a new world, Déclassé War, they say of the worker angry at capitalism:

    He decries the injustices around him, but it is his labour and consumption, in concert with the labour and consumption of millions like him, that power the system... Withdrawing from it isn't just a matter of personal taste, or a hedonistic exhibition of privilege... it’s the only way to contest it.[harbinger #5]

    So if “withdrawing” from the system is the only way to contest it, let us examine this "withdrawing" further. (Before we do it is worth bearing in mind again CrimethInc.’s origins – in the overwhelmingly-white, predominantly male punk movement in the cities and suburbs of the richest and most wasteful country on Earth.)

    CrimethInc. are blaming all of the world’s population who work anywhere, or consume anything at all, for the world’s problems. These privileged white American kids are blameless, since they are no longer complicit in “the system”, but all the East Asian sweatshop workers, forced off their communal land and into factories are at fault. As is the mother who pays for a roof over their head to keep her children from the cold and rain, as is the Aids patient who pays for treatment, as is the call centre worker trying to pay his way through university…

    What makes this worse is that CrimethInc. is the most high-profile anarchist group in the English-speaking world, and through its outreach materials is telling tens of thousands of people that this is what anarchism is: blaming anyone who is not a punk drop-out squatter who eats out of bins for being complicit in “the system.” CrimethInc.’s politics are basically individualist, lifestylist anarchism of the sort very widespread amongst anarchists in the US. Instead of proposing collective solutions, they preach individual lifestyle choices as the way towards social change.

    Of course, we do not deny that we all help perpetuate capitalist social relations. Through our labour we recreate the conditions of capital every day, for of course if one day we all decided not to return to work that would be the end of it. However we realise that we must all end capitalism together, when we are sufficiently organised to continue running society co-operatively. You cannot escape it by dropping out and eating out of bins. This parasitism in fact relies on capitalism still existing, and being incredibly wasteful. Everyone cannot drop out and eat from dumpsters, because with no one making stuff and putting it in dumpsters, what would we eat? It is only ever an option available for a tiny minority. And outside of the wasteful US it is very difficult to survive at all living off other people’s refuse. Outside of the West it is just impossible, full stop – you can’t get bags of Pret leftovers in Sub-Saharan Africa.

    That CrimethIncers can be so blind to their privileges is shocking. Even in the US itself, only a small minority have the ability to give up work and live through squatting, theft and scavenging. For the elderly or disabled, it is utterly impossible (leaving them forever condemned to be complicit with the system), for those with children it would be very difficult – and highly irresponsible. For women, who more often have to care for children it is often not feasible, and even less so for any who are pregnant. For people who aren’t white, and already attract a hugely disproportionate amount of police attention, not to mention receive far stiffer prison sentences, living a life of petty crime is not the same enjoyable game it is for white kids. For anyone who doesn’t have the fall-back option of parental support, either financial or of a room to stay in, giving up everything is a dangerous option.

    These tactics that discriminate against ethnic "minorities", women, the elderly, the disabled, the ill, those from poor or broken families are reflected in the makeup of CrimethInc., which is overwhelmingly young, male and white. This is not a problem in itself – but that they look down and cast blame on anyone who doesn’t “withdraw” from the system is inexcusable. They claim that dropping out is not “a hedonistic exhibition of privilege” – but that’s exactly what it is. And that they are so arrogant and patronising with it is infuriating. On the back cover of their book, Evasion, is the slogan: “Unemployment, poverty, homelessness – If you’re not having fun you’re not doing it right”. For anyone without a privileged background to fall back on, who hasn’t deliberately chosen that lifestyle for a short period of time that slogan is extremely insulting. (More about Evasion, below)

    Not only do CrimethInc. have an approach relevant to such a small proportion of the world’s (or the US) population, but they also attack and disseminate distorted information about other strains of anarchism – namely class struggle anarchism – which, despite any shortcomings it has, does embrace all working class people. One example is their article on patriarchy and sexism in Rancid News (rnzine.co.uk) which, with no hint of irony, untruthfully claiming that “class struggle anarchists” are sexist because they only care about class, and not gender.

    Are there any other problems with them?

    As well as this central tenet with which we completely disagree, and think is entirely at adds with any struggle for a better world, there are a number of issues which we also have with CrimethInc. which will now address.

    Dishonest

    CrimethInc. propaganda makes numerous claims about the nature of the organisation. In fact it even claims not to be an organisation as such:

    “There is no CrimethInc.
    CrimethInc. is simply you. CrimethInc. is not a membership organisation—it belongs to anyone who has the audacity to claim it, just as death belongs to anyone who can pick up a frying pan. … [it] is not the property of some board of trustees, there is no genius to credit for it”5

    While we would agree with their final statement, the rest is untrue. There are certain people who do run its websites, check its emails, and do publish zines, papers and books in CrimethInc.’s name – and most importantly, control the bank accounts.

    CrimethInc. is not a formal organisation, but it reproduces all the qualities typical of groupings of individualist, post-leftist and anti-organisationalist groupings – namely the existence of informal hierarchies. There is always the problem of informal leadership in informal groups. When no clear organisational structure or democratic processes, a self-selecting clique almost always ends up dominating the organisation through its occupation of certain key roles, particularly in relation to websites, contact lists and finances. They claim that anyone can declare themselves as “CrimethInc.”, but they don’t give access to their bank account or their website passwords to just anyone. Of course you wouldn’t expect them to do so either, but then they should be honest about the nature of their organisation.

    In addition to this basic dishonesty, CrimethInc. propaganda makes many other dubious claims about itself, in order to make itself look bigger, more important, and more influential than it actually is.

    One example is the long lists of names of CrimethInc. “cells” which it claims are active. They may argue that this is just artistic or humourous exaggeration, but in reality it is just organisational propaganda akin to that of Leninist groups which lie about the numbers of their members.

    The CrimethInc. article on Wikipedia, which we can only assume was self-written, makes the ridiculous claim that “initially associated with the North American Anarcho-Punk scene, [it] has since expanded into nearly all areas of the current global resistance to empire.”

    Their most blatant lie about their activity and international is in the aforementioned History of CrimethInc. in DoW, NoL, under “The Stockholm Action” of November 1999.

    The article claims that 200 CrimethInc. operatives dressed as police officers on a police-initiated “Safe Stockholm day” where they put extra officers on the streets. The CrimethInc. operatives acted over-zealously, and when the real police worked out something was up and tried to arrest them, they tried to arrest the real police. Fighting then broke out, and the CrimethIncers slipped away, leaving hundreds of police all fighting each other with clubs, then eventually tear gas and bullets. The incident left 37 police injured, and led to the police having their funding cut.

    Except it didn’t. And nor are there 200 CrimethInc. operatives in Sweden - the entire story is a lie.

    Situationist?

    CrimethInc. have very successfully appropriated rhetoric and imagery from the Situationists. The Situs wrote inspiring texts, and played an important role in the French insurrection and mass strike of 1968. Their vision of a “world of pleasures,” where people live “without dead time” was and still is aspiring to many, and their ideas spread widely into public consciousness and culture, helping inspire punk among other things.

    CrimethInc. have used the inspirational vision of free, joyous lives from the Situationists, but stripped them of the politics necessary to achieve them. At the very core of the Situs’ politics was the concept of the class struggle between employees and employers So we are left with a pretty shell of subverted (détourned) cartoons and images and prose about “breaking free” with nothing inside.

    In fact, CrimethInc. do not just ignore the matter of class, but present it in a completely false light. Their section on the “bourgeoisie” in DoW, NoL in fact (mis-)defines the term as meaning basically all people who are part of mainstream culture and society.

    Their Situationist pretensions are all the more jarring when you see the actual Situationists’ views on individualist anarchists like CrimethInc., which were utterly dismissive.6 See, for example, SI member Guy Debord’s Society of the Spectacle:

    The strength and the weakness of the real anarchist struggle resides in its viewing the goal of proletarian revolution as immediately present (the pretensions of anarchism in its individualist variants have always been laughable) 7

    Anti-social

    Harbinger #4 states that “what you do today is itself the extent of [the] revolution”. It then lists a number things that you “CAN” do, which are the manifestation of this revolution. Here are some extracts, followed by libcom comments:
    “You can leave unmarked boxes and bags all around town, to keep the bomb squad busy and entertained” Which apart from being moronic, like many of their suggestions is liable to get some stupid naïve young kid put in prison for years, while the CrimethInc. writers just keep writing.
    “YOU CAN get a fire extinguisher... for your squat easily enough from a restaurant, dormitory, hospital or library” And fuck the ‘mindless automatons’ in said building who could be burned to death we suppose.
    “YOU CAN make love by whispering fantasies, dancing together or for each other, concentrating on parts of the body or libido that often go ignored, or in any number of other wonderful ways you never see in the movies – and that can’t get you sick or pregnant” Platitudinous sex tips from anti-social activists. Thanks for that.
    “YOU CAN sleep outside.” I’ll tell the woman in a sleeping bag outside my work that she’s living the revolution.
    “YOU CAN keep warm in winter by lining the inside of your clothes with plastic. This will work best if you place the layer of plastic right next to your skin – although it will make you sweat a lot” – in the richest country in the world.
    “YOU CAN use cloth rags or sea sponges instead of tampons or pads”
    “YOU CAN fill a five gallon bucket with sawdust to serve as a toilet”

    CrimethInc.’s views on personal hygiene also predictably fit the “crusty punk” anarchist stereotype. See their number one reason “Why Capitalists Want to Sell You Deodorant”, from DoW, NoL:
    Body smells are erotic and sexual. Capitalists don't like that because they are impotent and opposed to all manifestations of sensuality and sexuality. Sexually awakened people are potentially dangerous to capitalists and their rigid, asexual system.
    While we’re sure that would come as a surprise to Hugh Hefner, the worst thing about this article is that they don’t even manage to hold these clichéd opinions in a laissez-faire way. Rather than be a matter of personal taste, they argue smelly people are actually superior to the vast majority of the population. See their reason 7:

    Deodorant-users are insecure. Capitalists like insecure people. Insecure people don't start trouble. Insecure people also buy room fresheners, hair conditioners, makeup, and magazines with articles about dieting.

    This again just serves as another example of their basic view of themselves as enlightened minority above the brainwashed masses.

    And in addition to the obvious appeals to anti-social behaviour above, such as stealing fire extinguishers from hospitals and planting fake bombs, in the CrimethInc. afterword to Evasion the author writes of that he first came across the Evasion zine when his host at a house he was staying showed him one. “Of course I stole it” he writes...8

    Dodgy views

    DoW, NoL has throughout it a series of essays collectively entitled “A History of CrimethInc.” One article in it, credited to paedophile Hakim Bey (aka Peter Lamborn Wilson) on p119 is called “Short-Lived Anarchist State in Fiume”.

    [​IMG]

    The article states that Gabriele D’Annunzio (“Decadent poet, artist, musician, aesthete, womaniser, pioneer daredevil aeronautist, black magician, genius and cad”) captured the Yugoslav town of Fiume and offered it to Italy. Italy turned down his offer, and he declared independence. It was an anarchist paradise and “the party never stopped” for 18 months until Italy invaded and took the town.

    In this article the deception begins at the get-go. The description of D’Annunzio leaves out the key point – that he was a fascist. He ran the first army of blackshirts, later adopted by Mussolini, a friend of his (see pic, below) and pioneered the fascist use of castor oil as a weapon of torture and murder on his opponents – mainly working class militants and revolutionaries.


    Mussolini with D'Annunzio

    He proclaimed himself the first “Duce” and ran the town with fascist terror, developing the first fully-fledged corporatist fascist government that Mussolini later extended to the whole of Italy (despite the working class resistance). When the Italian government finally invaded D’Annunzio fled. The whole incident went down in fascist folklore as the “Christmas of blood”. How CrimethInc. can glorify this as an “anarchist... party that never stopped” is beyond me.

    On a related note the author of the CrimethInc.-published book Evasion, “Mack” throughout the text shows his hatred for most human beings, and expresses some sympathies for fascist animal rights bands such as Vegan Reich. The full extent of his views, however, are revealed in an interview with Profane Existence (issue #43) in which he states that all people who eat meat are “murderers”, and all those who consume dairy products are “rapists”. He then explains how he would rather be friends with a “racist” than someone who ate dairy, and stated his wish for the majority of the world's population to “die in the most horrible pain and suffering” for having eaten dairy products or meat.

    That CrimethInc. publish books by someone who wants to torture and wipe out most of the planet does not do them any favors. However, it reflects the widely-held misanthropist attitudes prevalent in much of American individualist anarchism, best typified by the anti-civilization or primitivist anarchists, many of whom have called for mass die-offs of humans.

    Furthermore, CrimethInc.’s website crimethinc.net, which does not have many links, contains featured links to ultra nationalist websites, as well as the site of aforementioned Hakim Bey which contains pro-pedophilia materials. The nationalist websites are “Up the Ra!” and “Ireland’s Own” which are both cheerleading websites for murderous nationalist terrorist groups the Continuity, Real and Provisional IRAs and the INLA.

    Conclusion

    This fundamental difference in strategy – personal lifestyle choices versus organizing with others in a similar position at work or in the community – is the basic difference between the two sides of anarchism: the individualist anarchists and the social anarchists/libertarian communist.

    To overthrow capital and the state individual solutions are useless. In a free society we will need to be able to organize the production and distribution of goods to keep alive over 6 billion people.

    We cannot develop the skills and organization necessary to undertake this by dropping out on an individual level. We must always try to act together, as a united working class. We can build our collective power in our workplaces and in our communities, defending our conditions, and trying to win improvements in our everyday lives. By organizing and seeing concrete gains we can increase our confidence as a class, and eventually take over our workplaces and our land and re-organize production in our own interests, not for profit, and in harmony with the Earth.

    http://libcom.org/library/communist-cri ... ef2_2b3owg
     

  2. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    5,540

    98

    643

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Great article SenI !
     
  3. SenI

    SenIExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    237

    0

    10

    Oct 4, 2009
     Russian Federation
    Yea... I agree. The guys from libcom.org is very of well wrote to the article about critique of CrimethInc. Now I'm increasingly convinced, that a policy of early CrimethInc is full of bullshit and ridiculous. It's a pity, that they are thus disgracing also anarcho-punk movement. Because of this amongst ultraleft will create of bad impression about the punks :/ .
     
  4. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    977

    1

    4

    Oct 8, 2009
     
    Good article,

    But sometimes libcom can seem pretty arrogant
     
  5. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,816

    0

    15

    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Here in europe we have not many opportunities to get crimethinc stuff - but the article is almost a complete list of the reasons for passionate flame wars and discussions/critiques over here - lifestyle bullshit including zeitgeist, hakim bey and peter schult (great writer about the leftwing tradition in germany, but he was a "professed" pedophile too), individualist and primitivist sectarians spreading almost fascist mysanthropy while the very basics of philosophy and history are widely considered as "too much a hassle to learn" and "national" anarchists creeping in thru the back doors.
    Sometimes it gets really exhausting, sometimes just disgusting stupid... and the blame for beeing arrogant or doctrinaire is always in the air... Maybe Crimethinc is on the best way to get down to the pulp magazine level?
     
  6. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,816

    0

    15

    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Easy to achieve (and the locals might remember the long death of the "Blatt"?):

    Deadline is close but there are still 15 pages missing
    & nobody is reading a manuscript because time's running out
    & "good friends" deliver last minute manuscripts
    & a number of editors are pissed and refuse to work/read
    & and loose their nerves about the same issue again and again...
    & follow the zeitgeist and you might sell much of the total circulation using catchy hypes and amazing stories...

    & and thats why I love scene 'zines so much! :ecouteurs:
     
  7. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    105

    0

    0

    Jul 9, 2011
     
    I really don't see how dropping out is hard for people of color have a hard time dropping out. Infact the majority of lumpenproletariats are black or of colour, and regardless of our socio-economic position we are still going to be targeted harder than anyone else.

    And yes you are so fucking right about how it's about uniting together organizing help for everybody, and giving examples of how we can live autonomous, libertarian, and anarchist theories and ideas etc.


    I might have to think this one over. It is possible that if everyone dropped out than we could have some mini revolution of stealing and robbing, that is if you are talking about working class people, it would only work if the middle class dropped out to, then we'd just end up taking things from people's homes and supermarkets etc.

    That's a very complex idea though. Wat would happen if everybody dropped out? If everybody dropped out then, it would have to be instant revolution or riots of some sort.
     
  8. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    105

    0

    0

    Jul 9, 2011
     
    Anyway I might just become a dropout because I feel like there is nothing I can become in this society without comprimising my beliefs and self to do so.

    I don't see anything wrong with dropouts, they are cool.
     
  9. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    440

    0

    6

    Jun 19, 2011
     
    &
    just dropping out achieves nothing, in times of mass unemployment there is always somebody already waiting to take your place in the grinding machine and recreate capitalism replacing you.
    the important part is to CHANGE from the wrong side of the fence to the alternative, better/brighter side of life:
    start something on your own, look out for others with the same attitude and organize a collective, do something constructive, have fun and help to get something like a counter-society together to break the mainstream monopol on life.
    living on the dole isn't fun...
     
  10. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    105

    0

    0

    Jul 9, 2011
     
    No I was just saying I might just become dropout because of the whole individualist anarchist thing. And plus, Im doing proper shit in school, and just don't have worth ethic and drive like everybody else around me.
    Plus I'm anti-work, and well, I might end up poor probably. But I mix well with poor people, similar mentality and shit.

    If I do end up poor, hopefully I can work at community center or something and give free food to homeless and then organize with local dropouts and do something constructive like spreading knowledge to people of the streets.

    Either way, though I'm not a militant or anything I do steal almost everything I own, and not even opposed to the whole traveller aesthetic and lifestyle.

    Listen we shouldn't condemn people who live on the streets as useless or counter-revolutionary, and we shouldn't condemn people who conform and have jobs and pay taxes as counter-revolutionary either. Everybody has their reasons and are put in certain positions where sometimes the easy way is the hard way.

    For example I met some punk travellers at the park, nice people, i asked them why they were homeless and they said they simply don't want jobs. Alot of these people come from fucked up families and others from the richest, sometimes a strictly spiritual decision.

    But overall, why are we even attacking lumpenproletariat ways, yeah they are the cockroaches of society, but they are way more innocent then those in power, seriously.

    They drink, play music for money, spange, eat wasted food, they don't make money. Sometimes that isn't a bad thing. And really they are just community of people that care for eachother especially the runaways, and exhibit forms of cooperation, sharing, and kinda fight the work or starve myth, being able to survive on the streets. I'm not saying all of them are like this, that would be like saying all working class people are like us.

    Why don't we focus on attacking people choosing to become policemen than those choosing to dive dumpsters. Because at the end of the day, it's not the beggar on the street whos trying to control my life, tell me what to think, what to buy, I don't have to pay him anything or worry about him taking my house away or firing me.

    But yeah, Crimthinc is ridiculous in saying you HAVE to become a squatter to be revolutionary, and dropping out is the way to change everything. Because it is obviously not, you just end up really poor and thats all, you still eventually have to use money, and saying you can steal for a living, most people are too stupid to steal, and what if you get arrested huh? Then your way fucked.

    This is the equivalent of saying being a vegetarian is associated with revolutionary thought, it's not. We all know that vegetarians can be the most liberal retarded stuck up assholes.

    Dropping out is a personal choice and should only be looked at as such.
     
  11. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    5,540

    98

    643

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Aren't you condemning the entire working class to having conformed with this statement?
     
  12. nike

    nikeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    440

    0

    6

    Jun 19, 2011
     
    maybe you should reconsider "work" as a kind of self-realisation - you could become an artist, musician or whatever else and find some personal satisfaction in whatever you are doing. "work" in capitalism is alienated and alienating, serving at a production line and doing the whole day long one and the same stupid grip isn't "work" but wage-slavedom for the boss's profits.
    i'm working on a farm collective and i enjoy to be my own boss, four hours per day and person is enough to make our living and even during "overtime" i try to do the multitude of things we have to do as perfect as possible, i'm still learning every day to make it better.
    i think every human being has a natural drive to do something creative not only in arts, there's a wide range of handicrafts and even menial work on the fields and in the stables demands some skill and knowledge - but first of all i work for myself and my fellow comrades.
    can make a good start but what about a collective non-profit bookshop, grocery store - the opportunities are endless... and there is nothing wrong with ending up poor - i want to live and enjoy my living, what's the use of material stuff or money on a bank - you can't take anything with you at the end of your days.
    i personally would never condemn homeless people as parasites or counter-revolutionary - but we still have hardly begun to set up something against the mainstream and capitalism, so the lumpens might be the most promising group to make a start - they have almost nothing to loose but everything to gain (karl marx in "capital" - i still hate it...)
    having responsibilities like kids and family ect. can be a hinderance to make the step out of the fragile security the "normal" society offers - i can understand that, but at the same time (and even flashy crimethinc says so): they recreate capitalism day by day.
    we are hostages of the system we were born into and to add insult to injury we have to work for our living - thats where some kinda anti-society might become important - offering an more and more secure alternative to the grinding machine, allowing us to find our own way to deal with the necessities without authority and repression and all the other blessings of a criminal system.
    sorry, but i think you are too much caught up in your personal repression, but it isn't the single cop or media-p.r.-slave, school teacher, landlord or boss - they are only the smallest part of the whole repressive system. decades of terrorism and armed struggle proved that it's useless to attack them individually or as a group - they are quickly replaced by the next one eager to do the job just for a living.
    the only solution is radical (radix latin for root): the abolishing of state and authority via a revolution.
    somewhere between hope and frustration i have no clue how close we actually are to this general uprising - but we can use the time until then to create structures and preparations for the time after the state is gone and make the new beginning easier - it's up to us to overcome alienation and frustration by claiming back as much of our living as possible.
    you're right with that as long as it is a personal choice - but i think being a dropout forever instead of starting something new is wrong.
     
  13. ViciousCesar!

    ViciousCesar!Experienced Member Experienced member


    88

    0

    0

    Mar 27, 2011
     
  14. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    105

    0

    0

    Jul 9, 2011
     
    No. Conforming can encompass many different opinions and realities. So if your trying to say I call all workers conformists than your incorect, because I didn't exactly phrase it that way.

    You see that's the kind of job I need. And when I say anti-work, I don't mean " work" i mean, capitalist interpretation of work.
    I wish I could be my own boss, and serve to a greater purpose, or something that isn't spirtually degrading.

    How'd you get that job anyway? Lucky, lucky. I feel like the only way people get jobs these days is if they know someone or are lucky.

    I'm into organization for cause, very much. Even though, I'm a complete mess. I've read this book about anarchy, and in the book he talked about a once anarchist market in some time. Where locals brought in food, and goods and shared everything in an anarchist economic example. I think If we had more of these than people could see that we don't need capitalism, or money, that we can be better off.

    I've also wanted to get involved with a community center, or shelter, and do Food not Bombs, and shit like that. I think collaboration with lumpens or whatever is what we need really. I mean, they obviously are standing for something, and want to be heard, so since we are all like minded anarchists.

    Also,with giving away free shit, I realize that this is going to be difficult because everything comes from somewhere, and I don't think i can stop poverty or anything, but if we gave homeless people food, and knowledge than that would be even better.

    I think I have a slight vision of what I want to do and stuff, it's just the state of where I am at in school, and just the general pressures of the workforce are really blurring my focus. Like I get so worried with things like college, and my future, that I don't really see me having a good job attainable. I always feared that I'd end up a waitress or some shit like that. Thing is I feel like trapped and shit, and yeah it's hard, I just really wanna get the hell out of this city, and sometimes that whole lifestyle appeals, but nah, I'll try my best.

    True true true mate. There is this one collective anarcho book store in my town http://www.woodenshoebooks.com/
    I didn't even know they did shit like this. They are showing this cool movie about trainhopping this sunday night, I think I'll go.

    Yeah, I'm more worried about the man that we don't see who controls everything than the man that we do. Yeah I' never way s saying that you had any biases against lumpens, I said " we" as in people in general, because they tend to be viewed as the scum of the earth.
     
  15. Septimiuss

    SeptimiussActive Member Forum Member


    43

    0

    1

    Apr 27, 2011
     
    the lumpen.... blacks and whites working together for a common goal... cut the liberal and only listen to the racist ass man, not for the racism but for the idea that race boundries in some ways can be fluid...the country they are in is mostly white, so in the absence of a large ethnic minority can white people (as an absence of ethnicity) become another race through culture and lifestyle or even a single event?

    listen to the man that says "it only takes a small number of people that have absolutely no future to create chaos in the streets" listen to the liberal man he's got a point there...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14513517
     
  16. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    5,540

    98

    643

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    fair enough
     
  17. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    2,123

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    a couple of things.

    1. this is a fairly limited critique of Crimethinc, the author notes Crimethinc nowadays aren't so bad. I've not read their new book, Work, yet, so I'm not sure if that's right.

    2. The Crimethinc book, Days of War, Nights of Love, is a reference to Eduardo Galeano's Days and Nights of Love and War, which is a fucking awesome book.


    3. skulldrix, work sucks, if you can avoid it, do so, but unemployment sucks pretty hard too, and is usually worse.

    So yeah, as you note, dropping out is a choice to be made on the basis of yr own needs and desires, rather than on the advice of some political program. Dropping out is neither revolutionary nor counter-revolution, the problem is, as you note:
    On a slight tangent, you've qualified yr statement but still:
    might have been better to have used the phrase 'obliged to work' or something. Having a job has more to do with coercion than conformity.
    sauce


    Also:
    The article doesn't attack dumpster divers, rather those who advocate dumpster diving as the best tactic for revolution (although there is an overlap ;) ). Moreover, writing such an article doesn't necessarily mean they're not attacking policemen, etc, in other articles, etc.

    Finally, yr use of the term lumpenproletariat to refer to the unemployed isn't quite accurate. That there is a permanent section of society that are unemployed (the individuals comprising this section can change of course) is a structural necessity within Capitalism:
    sauce

    This is kind of a non-issue that really would only matter to Marxists, i don't give a fuck if ppl are proles or lumpen. But it does raise an interesting point inregards 'dropping out'. The idea of dropping out is yr not partaking in the reproduction of capitalism, but being unemployed can and does act to reproduce capitalism, yr role as the unemployed is to embody a deterrence against worker noncompliance, the conspicuous poverty and homelessness of the unemployed is an implied threat against the employed, 'my job sucks, but not having it would be so much worse.'
    Although of course, squatting and dumpster diving does challenge the notion that not working means you have to live on the streets and starve.
     
  18. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    105

    0

    0

    Jul 9, 2011
     
    How absolutely depressing. It's like your trapped either way. Fuck everything in general.

    I'm gonna be living with my parents forever. :(
     
  19. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    2,123

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Sorry, for clarity, this:
    should read:
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Anarcho communist critiqueForumDate
Anarcho-Communist Youth Front, New Group!Anarchism and radical activismFeb 1, 2013
MG 15 legendary Spanish anarcho D-beat bands singer turns fascistAnarchism and radical activismJul 9, 2019
Indonesian Anarcho-Punk sceneMusic, punk scene & subculturesMay 10, 2019
Anarcho-Hip-Hop. My effort to spread Anarchism to a whole new demographicMusic, punk scene & subculturesMar 18, 2019
Anarcho-Punk scene in JapanMusic, punk scene & subculturesFeb 8, 2019