Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

ALF/ELF tactics, logic, etc...

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Vegetarian Barbarian, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    719

    0

    0

    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Well i am a huge sympathizer and supporter of both fronts. Done a lot to help some people out in ways of mailing people in jail and what not but for the record.

    I DONT KNOW ANYTHING

    How do you feel about these fronts? I generally agree with their tactics, logic, organization etc.
     

  2. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    2,342

    5

    156

    Oct 18, 2009
    Male, 41 years old
    Long Beach CA United States
    I only agree if no people are harmed... I don't feel animal lives are more important then human lives... but I do believe animal lives should be respected.
     
  3. chesticles

    chesticlesActive Member Forum Member


    36

    0

    0

    Oct 14, 2009
     
    yea when more people reply on this i really need some help
    i need tips on eating vegetarian or vegan (depending if) there is a way to eat for cheap and not lose weight or not have any energy
    (eating a shit ton of bread doesnt do me justice)

    i went vege for a couple months, but me already being a small person i dropped too much weight and look like i was tweakin..
    so help me pwease if your passionate about this topic
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,295

    45

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    i totally support ALF... I bought the DVD a couple of years ago, i recommand it to everyone.

    But i also agree with Anxiety on this. Some ALF peoples are way too radical, i heard of ALF activists in the UK torturing and mutilating farmers in the name of their activism.... (consider a lot of farmers are more victims than responsibles, think about all the big companies imposing their procedures and telling the farmers how to work)

    However the ALF isn't even a movement, there's no central comitee or whatever.... anyone can make an ALF section if they want and call themselves ALF.... So all the independent units act the way they want, therefore they can't control everything and avoid excessive radicality of their comrades...

    I'm not really an anti-speciest, but i do believe animal liberation and human liberation is the same struggle.
     
  5. Extinction

    ExtinctionExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    246

    1

    0

    Sep 1, 2009
     
    I support ALF all the way. Ever since I heard One Struggle One Fight by The Varukers about 4 years ago, I've been a supporter. An animal is a living being and should be supported with the same rights as well.
     
  6. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    143

    0

    0

    Oct 12, 2009
     
    That...never happened.

    The idea that there's an intrinsic conflict between the lives and intentions of all non-human animals and the lives and intentions of all human animals is misguided. The lives and interests of individuals conflict constantly, regardless of species, but you're over-identifying with monoliths if you think "our society" will suffer without the systemic exploitation of non-humans. Capitalism will suffer, but that's what we all want, isn't it? :D

    (A/E)LF tactics are some of the most effective in the history of industrial/post-industrial anarchism. They have shown time and time again that $20 worth of gear from an out of state hardware store and a lot of planning can cause some of the worst offenders to call it a day. As defenders of the most marginalized group in society, the ALF will always be on the cutting edge of the anarchist movement; other anarchists would do well to study its history and tactics.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    294

    1

    3

    Aug 9, 2009
     
    A little off topic, but if we are talking about an animal rights songs it doesn't get much better than The Only Release by Oi Polloi.
     
  8. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    2,342

    5

    156

    Oct 18, 2009
    Male, 41 years old
    Long Beach CA United States
    the best animal rights song I've heard, actyually made me cry was IMAGINE By A State Of Mind (available in the downloads section)
     
  9. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    719

    0

    0

    Oct 19, 2009
     
    That is a good song, but im more along the lines of, yes, Dystopia's Taste Your Own Medicine.
     
  10. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    It's a broad group, lacking central cohesion, but on the whole the ALF are both ideologically bankrupt and dangerously misguided. The ELF on the other hand I have a lot more sympathy for, even if I don't always agree with them.
     
  11. Hex

    HexExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    126

    0

    0

    Sep 22, 2009
     
    what?!?!? :/ i find that extremely hard to believe. i would love to see the source material on this if you can track it down.

    ..and before anyone wastes time typing it out, the Center for Consumer Freedom is NOT a reliable source.
     
  12. Hex

    HexExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    126

    0

    0

    Sep 22, 2009
     
    check out this thread chesticles:
    http://www.anarcho-punk.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2538

    if you don't find the info that you are looking for there, PM me and i'll do my best to help you out.
     
  13. Hex

    HexExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    126

    0

    0

    Sep 22, 2009
     
    for anyone who hasn't seen it already or for those who might be interested in learning more about the ELF/ALF...

    here is a link to the film 'Testify! Eco-Defense and the Politics of Violence':

    http://submedia.tv/stimulator/2008/04/25/testify/
     
  14. Extinction

    ExtinctionExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    246

    1

    0

    Sep 1, 2009
     
    Pretty good, but I was just pointing out how something as simple as a song can get you involved in something else.
     
  15. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


    55

    0

    0

    Dec 3, 2009
     
    Ok, this is where I will become unpopular. I don't agree with militant direct action in the case of animal rights. The aim of the animal rights movement is to abolish animal use completely, i.e. not eating them, using them for clothing or performing pointless tests on them. I think that along with Peta and other ridiculous welfarist corporations, militant direct action actually does more harm than good to the movement.

    Why are millions and millions of animals enslaved and murdered for food, clothing and animal testing? It's not because of some evil corporations hell bent on killing lives, it's because there is a demand for this from the public. 99% of people see no moral difference between a hamburger and a carrot. I don't see how attacking the supply can do anything, supply is re-filled by demand, demand is created by the 99% of the people who see nothing morally wrong with animal use.

    I say that the only effective way of bringing about animal liberation is to spend our time and energy in educating people about WHY they shouldn't use animals and why animals are not our property. The most effective thing for this is to advocate veganism - to me it covers everything - a vegan doesn't eat animals, buy products that are tested on animals, buy animals from the "pet" industry or wear animals as clothing.

    Sure I can see how open rescues etc can make someone feel like they are doing something NOW for animals, and sure they save a few lives, but if the demand exists then the supply will just be refilled. If we shut down a testing lab, sure the company will lose some money, but as long as people see nothing wrong with animal testing, and keep buying products that are tested, and keep supporting charities that use animal testing, then a new lab will be built in its place.

    We need to change minds and reach out to people. To me militant direct action drives people away.

    That's my view anyways, and where my AR activism lies.

    I don't know much about the ELF, will have to read up more. Any suggested reading materials (web or paper is fine).

    Cheers.
     
  16. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChristExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    158

    1

    0

    Nov 1, 2009
     
    I agree with what you said.

    And plus if you release an animal born in a farm or zoo...he will probably just get killed..
     
  17. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


    55

    0

    0

    Dec 3, 2009
     
    The ALF don't just release animals that are bred in capitivity into the wild, they make sure that they have carers and vetinary care etc.
     
  18. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,295

    45

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    exactly

    bletheringvegan's critic is also very interessing, at least concerning actions against farms and such. But i think we could distinguish two different type of actions in the ALF movement : vegan actions and actions against animal torture. And to me, attacking assholes like HLS who torture animals on a daily basis is the same struggle than attacking the assholes who torture humans in guantanamo bay.

    Yes there is a demand, but in a capitalist system it's the system that creates the demand. We could say that OGM are here because there is a demand, but it's not a reason to not fight the supplys. Same thing with weapons, nukes, nuclear power, police, military, and even war.... We could argue there is a "demand" for everything...
     
  19. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,295

    45

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    Sorry but yes it happenned. I have a french documentary that talks about it, and even shows pictures..

    There are extremists and radical peoples in all movements.... especially de-centralized movements like ALF which isnt even an organisation
     
  20. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


    55

    0

    0

    Dec 3, 2009
     
    Yeah I guess there are different types of actions in the ALF movement. Although it kind of disturbs me to hear that some ALF activists are vegetarian, i.e. still consuming animal excretions that clearly amount to torture for the mother and the baby calf who is discarded or made into veal.

    My point is that the HLS exist because people don't see anything really wrong with animal testing, people have this "burning house" mentality, the question "if your house was on fire and you could only rescue either your child or your dog", of course they always pick the child, but they have the same mentality for animal testing - its either diseases that kill people or animal testing to "cure" these diseases (even though it has done nothing, and most are preventable diseases anyway, but off topic). If we educated people as to why animal testing is wrong, then there would be less demand for it.

    But, saying this, we are capable of multi-tasking, my only fear is that with 99% of the population not seeing the HLS et al as the bad guys, then any militant attack is seized on by the media and twisted to make the activists out as the bad guys, thereby turning the very people we want to not use animals and to oppose animal torture against us.

    You are right that the system creates the demand, but the only way to fight the system is to get the idea out that we don't need the system, and the only way to do that is through spreading the ideas to ears that we really need to keep sympathetic and not frightened or intimidated.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - ALF ELF tacticsForumDate
Stop The Killing - ALF & Hunt Sab benefit comp tapeAnarcho-Punk music albums downloadsMay 1, 2014
Alfie Kohn: How to Prevent Social ChangeDocumentaries & MoviesFeb 18, 2014
Schifosi - 2005 - Half Lit World (7'') + Ill Winds From Outopia (Lp) [APN]Anarcho-Punk music albums downloadsJul 10, 2013
Schifosi - 2004 - Half Lit World (Ep) [APN]Anarcho-Punk music albums downloadsJul 10, 2013
The Pist + Half Empty - 1996 - Split (Ep) [APN]Anarcho-Punk music albums downloadsJul 10, 2013