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Abortion

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Saering, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. Unreasonable Man

    Unreasonable ManActive Member Forum Member


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    Feb 14, 2010
     
    I think the debates wrong. I agree 100% with Emma Goldman when she put abortion in the structure of social conditions. The poor get abortions, the rich use birth control. Instead of promoting abortion we should be promoting easy access to birth control even harder with access to abortion a last resort on par with a heart transplant or other drastic operations. Denying someone the right to life is never something to be taken lightly and while I whole heartedly support a womans right to her biological freedom you can avoid the choice all together.

    This goes hand in hand with fighting the pro-lifers. Tear down the hypocracy of when they oppose birth control all together, and if you want some fun with those doing it out of some misconceived religious purpose throw Numbers 5 at them, the old Judaic law where if a woman has become pregnant by a man aside from her husband shw would be forced to drink "the water of bitterness" a concoction that would cause her to loose the baby. Oh crap a Judeo-Christian reference to abortion where its used to oppress women? I'm chock full of surprises arent I.

    Keep Abortion, but promote contraception so fully that we don't need it.
     
  2. miserablist

    miserablistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    I support a persons right to carry out any procedure on their own body they so desire. To those that seem to think that abortion is used as a form of birth control then they have obviously never had one nor had a partner who has. It's not a pleasant experience. I know many women who have had abortions, some who have been unlucky enough to have had more than one, and not a single one would ever thought of it as a form of contraception.
     
  3. Ferago

    FeragoActive Member Forum Member


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    Feb 15, 2010
     
    I'm completely pro choice.

    The concept of my beliefs overriding what women I've never met choose to do to their own bodies is completely bizarre to me.
     
  4. Rhube

    RhubeActive Member Forum Member


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    Feb 5, 2010
     

    I suspect this is one of the smartest things I've ever heard/read in a discussion on abortion.
    <3
     
  5. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    Yes, almost. There's no birth control that is 100% safe.
    Except for not fucking of cause, but what kind of a choice is that?! ;)
     
  6. Hume-Mill-Ity

    Hume-Mill-ItyMember Forum Member


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    Feb 19, 2010
     
    100% pro-choice, trhough that isn't exactly a stance. It's leaving the choice to women.
    Asn someone above said, there can't be many people who think of abortion as a contraceptive method. Those who find themselves pregnant and can't or don't want to support a child have the right to terminate their own pregnancy. If anyone has anything to say against that, it sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to be a man or group of men.
    Freakonomics makes interesting reading on the subject. Areas where abortion was allowed tended to have higher rates of unhappy single-parent units later on, plus a statistically insignificant rise in lower-level crime.
     
  7. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Easy access to contraceptives and education is KEY. However, as I said earlier, a significant amount of abortions occur before the zygote develops sufficiently to qualify for personhood. Another percentage are already dead, or suffering from a terminal deformity, thereby making it a moot issue. A blastocyst is NOT a person, and should NOT be treated as such. As for the "right to life", at a certain point in the development that may be legitimate, but it cannot trump the right of the woman over the sovreignty of her body.
     
  8. Arjay691

    Arjay691Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 11, 2009
     
    A woman should have every right to have an abortion if she chooses to. However, I believe a woman shouldn't impulsively decide to go ahead with the procedure, but she should at least put a lot of thought into it.
     
  9. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 21, 2009
     
    Don't know how it works in the rest of the world but at least here before having an abortion you have to first see a psychologist, then also talk it through with a nurse and the doctor that are to do the precedeur. Not only will you talk about the abortion itself but also how you will in the future prevent from having to have another. Then the actual abortion won't even be until the day after, just so you can put some more thought to it and really be sure of your desicion.
     
  10. oneleggedpunk

    oneleggedpunkExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 4, 2009
     
    I can't believe i'm going to say this but ...........i agree with Cocytus.

    Although surely as an Anarchist you can't really think this.
     
  11. Hume-Mill-Ity

    Hume-Mill-ItyMember Forum Member


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    Feb 19, 2010
     
    population control is sort of missing the point of the thread.
     
  12. Wheat Thix

    Wheat ThixMember New Member


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    Feb 23, 2010
     
    Pro-choice. As an anarcho-communist, I realize that in many cases among the proletariat, single working women who get pregnant will most likely be unable to raise a kid while working to support herself, and her child. I say this based on the conditions described to me by local factory workers in my home of St. Cloud, MN. As much as I hate to admit it, the local unions are shit, and it's nearly impossible to get welfare while making 200$ a month and up. It's not a matter of morals, it's a matter of womens rights The way I see it, if we allow conservatards to outlaw abortion, it's truly a slippery slope. To quote Jello Biafra, "Today the womb, tomorrow the bedroom." So...Yeah. Pro choice.

    Also, this was my first post ever on this forum (just joined today), so I hope it was enlightening for some of you!
     
  13. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Yeah, but that's missing the point. People should be paid for looking after their children, it's and occupation, and for the benefit of the community. Fucking stupid that you can get paid to care for other children, but not your own, when the most qualified to look after a child is it's own parents.
     
  14. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    Having taught some neglected kids I actually disagree with that. And, though I'm not racist and do not assume ALL 'foreigners' are like this, the majority of the kids that were neglected came from families from Turkey, Morocco or the Dutch Antilles.
     
  15. Wheat Thix

    Wheat ThixMember New Member


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    Feb 23, 2010
     
    Ivanovich, I don't see how I'm missing the point. The thread is on abortion, and I was asked what my opinion on abortion was; and so I gave it. But addressing the latter half of your post, I somewhat agree with you. I do not think however that a parent in all situations should be the one looking after a child (in cases such as neglect, heavy/severe drug abuse etc. etc.)
     
  16. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Yeah, but while there are plenty valid reasons for abortion, I don't think fucked up economic system is. The rich can have kids, the poor got kill them, fuck that. Ok, sure some parent aint fit for the job, a minority, and wtf, if both parents got to go out work to survive, that is child neglect. So that's the choice, kill your babies or else THEY won't let you take care of them. Take away the right to care for their child and give them the option to kill them instead, that's really striking a blow for women's rights. Slavery or death. Kill the fucking poor, right on.
     
  17. FetusGrinder

    FetusGrinderMember Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    Wrong. Anarchism is not specifically secular or anti-religious no matter how much Bakunin, Goldman and other reactionaries try to make it that way. I don't think I need to point out all the famous Christian Anarchists to prove the point that Anarchy isn't exclusive to atheists any more than it is exclusive to punks. I am not particularly religious [kind of agnostic, I spoze..], but I'm not going to claim that anyone else is less Anarchist than Me because they believe in "God".

    Also, pro-choice is not the Anarchist stance, it's the liberal stance. Anarchists question and challenge everything, including what's implied by the pro-choice stance, such as the healthcare establishment and it's division of labor and classist oppression. Not to mention all the people they let die from curable diseases so they can keep profiting off treating, rather than curing those diseases...

    I digress.

    I personally am in favour of herbal abortions. And it's not due to a lack of "magic" that makes the moral objections to abortion ridiculous, but the fact that if you're against preventing potential children, you'd have to also be against condoms, the pill, abstinance, etc. You'd just be out fucking with no protection all the time to make sure every potential life could be born! I don't care if someone believes in "God" or "magic", LOL, in fact, I don't believe in an absence of "God" or "magic" in anything! Everything is sacred to Me. I just don't put quantity of potential life over quality of current life.

    That part about women being reduced to a talking incubator by pro-lifers...I dunno, I'd do everything in My power to keep someone alive if they were trying to live and I wouldn't consider anyone who wouldn't be willing to do that a persyn. The importance of the female with the potential child//abortion isn't in question by anyone, what's in question is the importance of the feeeeeeeeeeetus. Sorry, I just felt like saying it like that. :] Fetus is one of My favourite words. :lmao:

    Anyway...I'd say Anarchists are against all legislation and all corporations and support alternative healthcare, keeping in mind that it's not always possible in the modern world to live idealistically.

    And I love that there's a thread that lets Me say fetus a lot. :]













    Fetus.
     
  18. FetusGrinder

    FetusGrinderMember Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    How can rights be about anything but morals??
    We as Anarchists can never accept the accusation that we refuse moral standards, that Anarchy is amoral. It's very much a matter of morals, as is everything Anarchists stand for. Just don't let them tell you what morality means.
     
  19. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    I am Pro-Choice.
    I am a male, so I will never go through things like pregnancy, so I think the women should decide on their own, and I think abortion should be a choice.
    It is the womens decision if they get an abortion, or keep the baby.
    I am not Pro-Abortion.
    I am Pro-Choice.
    Pro-Abortion is forcing the women to get an abortion.
    Pro-Choice is giving them the right to choose.
     
  20. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    what if the woman is raped?
    and how are planned kids mistakes?
     
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