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anti flag good or bad?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by corpratedeath, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    OK I can respect that, we'll just have to agree to disagree on these guys...so how do you feel about The Offspring....Avril Lavigne....Jonas Bros?
    :D
    just joking
     
  2. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well first off, none of those are really comperable. It's almost like saying; "How do you feel about echidnas, Brazilian waxes, and global warming?"

    I love the Offspring, although I don't love everything they do. "Splinter" was pretty sub-par, and "Conspiracy of One" was lackluster, but at least had a couple standout tracks. The latest release, besides having too long of a title and being a little anemic is pretty good, better than the previous album, at least, but like I said that wasn't hard. From the self-titled debut through "Americana", they did some amazing stuff. "Smash","Ixnay", and "Americana" were just incredible. Ignition and the debut were also very good and often get overlooked, but those three albums just cranked it up to 11. This is another band that gets unfairly tagged by people who don't know they didn't sign to a major until "Americana." I don't know if it still holds, but "Smash" was the No. 1 indie album of all time. It put Epitaph on the map, although it nearly killed them at the time because they weren't prepared for that kind of success. That, "Dookie", and "Out Come the Wolves" came out in pretty close succession really fueling the punk resurgence of the latter part of the decade which began earlier with Nirvana and grunge which in turn came from 80's punk/hardcore, etc., etc. Great band. I saw them live last year and they were awesome, I'd love to see them again.

    Avril is disposeable pop, and I'm uncomfortable about the copping of punk style but that's hardly new. She isn't billing herself as punk. At least she actually writes some of her stuff. Cute, but lacking in depth. However, she might be growing up, now.

    The Jonas Bros are pure manufactured pop, I guess it's just like the modern day David Cassidy or whatever. I couldn't name a single song, and I aim to keep it that way if I can help it.
     
  3. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Come on I was J O K I N G... :lmao:
     
  4. Rathryn

    Rathryn Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Maybe he thought for 2 seconds, but his humour doesn't kick in 'til after the third :p
     
  5. Spider

    Spider Experienced Member Experienced member


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    posting to say i endorse Offspring and Antiflag, don't endorse avril but would still engage in respectful intercourse with her (Have been warned for sexism in the past so whilst i don't believe in censorship, nor do i consider women so frail that they must be shielded from my imagination, i would not want to offend the sensibilities of overzealous protectors of the innocent)

    Not to sound like Cocytus (not necessarily a bad thing) but jonas brothers definitely need to die. That said props go out for the epic burn they drop on "Intended audience for purpose of song" guy in the "year 3000" tune they always play at my work.
     
  6. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    now that's funny :thumbsup:
     
  7. Saering

    Saering Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Eh i think anti flag is okay, like with many bands the older stuff is better than the new, they remind me a bit of the unseen going to a major label to spread their message further (although i don't think they were on MTV like the unseen) they feel that this is right for them, i don't agree with it but to be fair the bands that do this aren't exactly full blown anarchist's
     
  8. Valsira

    Valsira Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Anti-Flag were one of the first bands to get me into punk and I do still listen to them quite a bit. That being said Bright Lights of America was a MASSIVE disappointment for me (both musically and lyrically), but their latest CD isn't bad for the most part (and Bring Down The Wall Again from the EP that came with it is one of my favourites by them). Underground Network, The Terror State, and For Blood and Empire are all albums I love. Their earlier stuff is cool but a bit immature imo.

    So yeah, I'd be tempted to call them sell-outs, but I think overall they've done quite a bit of good.
     
  9. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Hold on while I fall over on my floor.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
    Active political punk bands HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.

    You want political punk bands, with for real anarchist ideals that dont sign the fat check contracts, and sound like emo whiny nerds?

    Behind Enemy Lines.
    Iskra.
    World Burns to Death.
    Black Krondstadt.
    Scorched Earth Policy.

    check those 5 bands out then re-think your stance on what being a visible and active political punk band is.

    those 5 bands lyrical content far surpasses anything any one of those bands you named has in their entire careers.
     
  10. disfuck

    disfuck Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i cant wait for someone to try and stick up for rancid , itll be amusing
     
  11. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Rancid iz teh biggezt punx eva!!!1!!11! :)
     
  12. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    .........*Yawn*

    This is the kind of retarded shit I was talking about. How Anti-Flag sounds is absolutely immeterial, I'm not insterested in what music appeals to you. Now, there are three SEPERATE issues which you're blending together, here. 1. Anti-Flag's legitimacy as a punk band. 2. Anti-Flag's legitimacy as a political punk band. 3.Anti-Flag's legitimacy vis-a-vis Anarchism. These are really seperate things. Punk doesn't have to be political, and there's no reason why political punk bands HAVE to be Anarchist.
    You're also being disingenuous. Anti-Flag's contract with RCA expired, their next album will be on an indie label, like 75% of the material they've produced. They had total creative control over those albums, and, while I don't know the exact details of the contract, they're hardly rolling in cash. I seriously doubt a major label would throw a huge amount of cash at a band called ANTI-FLAG who've never broken into the top forty. I think their most successful album at it's PEAK was 100 on the Top 100. Characterizing them as capitalist fatcats is really just dishonest.

    You continue to prove my point. Especially the word VISIBLE. These are obscure bands. (The music is terrible, incidentally.) Bands like this exist in a wind tunnel, preaching to the converted. They aren't spreading a message to anybody who isn't already onboard. They probably have very limited resources to contribute to political causes. I mean, I'm sure in their hometown, in whatever basement they play in they're a big deal, but that's about the extent of it. Again, as far as visible, active, activist punk bands, Anti-Flag is one of the better examples, today.
    While I only listened to a little of this the idea that any of this crap could exceed the lyrical depth and brilliance of the Clash is ridiculous.
    Maybe one day you'll say something intelligent, but I'm not gonna hold my breath...
     
  13. monsieur b

    monsieur b Active Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I have to admit that I hate puritans, and the ones who are like "i'm so underground punx i nevah listened to rancid" kind of annoy me. Very few of us can say they've never listened to rancid. And liked it (whether it's now or at the time, I couldn't care less). And very few will admit it to themselves, which I kind of laugh about.

    I agree with NGMN85 on a lot of points. Whether someone likes the sound of Anti-Flag is irrelevant, the point is that they had refused to sign to a major when given the chance because they did not have total artistic control, and only did when their demands were accepted. I do think their new stuff sound a little like something I shat and then put on a cassette, but I can't say everything I've done was awesome either.

    Another thing is that we kind of need bands like Anti-Flag, because the kid somewhere with some ideas will probably find that band more easily (and maybe easier to listen) than some crusty punk basement sound-like-crap show, that might get that kid thinking and then going on to more "mature" stuff. And like NGNM85 says, certain bands preach to the converted, Anti-Flag is often that kind of "outreach" band, what's the use of just being together and being all so anarchist together and-we're-so-cool-'cause-we're-so-anarchist-and-everyone-else-is-so-dumb? I mean, if it's just that, then I'd rather just stay home and jerk off, 'cause it'd be just as productive.
     
  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    But there are literally thousands of better bands, past and present. If you want to call them a 'gateway' band fine..nothing wrong with those bands as far as getting new people into punk or anarcho punk.. but if you don't go trolling through the garbage you will not find treasure. I could care less if they sold out didn't sell out or raped there mommas I just think they suck and have always thought so. As for Rancid, never cared for 'em either but maybe thats just because I'm an Old punk that remembers hundreds of bands that blew em out of the water. Now if any of you like them thats alright in my book, just be warned that I'll try to get you to discover much better stuff so that you'll forget all about 'em eventually.

    I Refuse It
    Cheetah Chrome Motherfuckers
    L.A.R.M.
    Victims Family
    Flag Of Democracy..... and many more oldies!
     
  15. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dave Trengas lyrics are ingenious.
    Anyone who can even attempt to debate that fact is a joke and has no idea what theyre talking about.
     
  16. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Voice Of Dissent lyrics

    In university vivisection labs another million of government grants is spent
    For better money a lawyer sells out the client he's supposed to represent
    Insurance companies public relations campaigns are an undisputable lie
    Blaming ‘insurance fraud' as the reason why premiums are so ridiculously high
    They use their advertising propaganda to convince the people that they're not corrupt
    And so the disabled are viewed as criminals, while they're the ones who won't pay up
    Pharmaceutical stock-holding doctors playing god with peoples lives
    They'll subject you to chemotherapy knowing well you won't survive
    The whitewashing of minds and the greasing of hands
    Is why this capitalist system and government still stands
    How many patients will die from a disease without the cause ever being known
    Like the members of the military who are now inflicted with gulf war syndrome
    Could this be another mysterious disease that they swear lacks their involvement
    Or an experiment done by the chemical-biological warfare department
    Research and production paid for by the pentagon's black budget funding
    That's secretly been agreed to be increased by the next presidential candidate running
    Whose office has to be bought quickly because he's running out of time
    And his opponent endorsed capital punishment first to show he's tough on crime
    The whitewashing of minds and the greasing of hands
    Is why this capitalist system and government still stands
    But both will agree the reports of political prisoners are merely fairy tales
    It's absurd to think that innocent people might inhabit our jails
    It's more acceptable and politically profitable to believe the corrupt F.O.P.
    Whose true colors are occasionally caught on videotape for the entire world to see
    In addition to cops beating dissidents there are more extreme solutions
    Like the government sanctioned lobotomies performed in mental institutions
    That the state can confidently assure us no longer occurs
    Apathy is the condition that their money and propaganda now preserves
    The whitewashing of minds and the greasing of hands
    Is why this capitalist system and government still stands
    Status is manipulated by capital, those with wealth now feed the publics view
    Power is kept beyond the peoples reach, the world is run by the few
    People of independent and artistic thought have all been ostracized
    Now seen as freaks and lunatics culture has been lobotomized
    Finances now proclaim importance, the businessmen hold the respected opinion
    And possess the means to maintain their power in this capitalist dominion
    They take every precaution to insure that our path's already set
    And revel in their efforts when we absolutely pose no threat
    Just like the child on Ritalin that's force-fed drugs to control behavior
    Or the flock of worshippers on their knees obedient servants to their savior
    Or the people who once stood defiant that alcohol now keeps complacent
    Or the suppression of the imagination, thanks to mindless entertainment
    The entertaining of our minds leads to the containing of our lives
    Where compassion has no place but capitalism thrives
    And the ruling class survives because money dictates what's right
    While the ills of our society are conveniently kept out of sight
    When we mirror their ideals and adhere to money and control
    It affects all facets of our lives and swiftly takes it's toll
    No person or profession is immune from moneys filthy reach
    It turns us against one another and keeps us on a leash
    When money and distractions reinforce the oppressive grasp
    Any hopes of creating change will regrettably collapse
    The more problems we have as individuals, the more we seem to miss
    The more they divert our attention the more they can accomplish
    The whitewashing of minds and the greasing of hands
    Is why this capitalist system and government still stands
    We naively believe that if we just play their game then maybe we stand a chance
    We step on one another in hopes that our lives will soon advance
    We overlook each other's needs and give in to the pressures of the state
    We don't trust our leaders when it comes to politics but we allow them to control our fate
    If we live our lives under their heel do we really have a choice
    But to break the cycle of silence and raise our dissenting voice
    To support government oppression by indifference may not be our intent
    But it's still just as effective as if we gave them our consent
     
  17. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oi Polloi's sound and message > Anti-flag's sound and message

    and they're probably known better by real activists too.

    bands like them get kids into punk, and then kids grow out of them and turn to either better punk, or just drop the whole punk thing completely. I listen to some of their old shit every now and then for shits n giggles, other than that I think they get real old real fast.
     
  18. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    fuiam catha is one of the best fucking albums ever
     
  19. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Translation: "I don't really care for their music" Which is irrelevant.


    I disagree. I LOVE old-school punk. From the Pistols, the Clash, and the Ramones, to more obscure but incredible bands like the Adverts, X, Stiff Litle Fingers, Penetration, the Weirdos, etc. Liking these bands doesn't mean that I like NOFX, or Against Me! It just means I can appreciate them in a historical context as modern incarnations of a diverse, complex, and beautiful musical tradition. Besides, Tim Armstrong is so obviously drawing inspiration from the Clash. He might not be Joe Strummer, but "Out Come the Wolves" was a great album.
     
  20. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    There's no point in even attempting to debate that. However, unless bands reach across the aisle it essentially becomes a masturbatory exercise of preaching to the converted. If you just want hardcore anarchist punk for hardcore anarchists only,then..... Knock yourself out.
     
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