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Meat tax(?)

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Voodoobwai, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Voodoobwai

    Voodoobwai Member Forum Member


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    Apr 19, 2012
     Sweden
    Anarchist wievs on one of the debates about meat tax in Northen Europe right now.
    Should people pay moore for things that's obviously bad for the enviorement? (oil, meat, energy etc.)
    Who's to decide? Information etc.? Blah. Blah. Blah...
     

  2. Some Guy

    Some Guy Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 13, 2011
     Canada
    Although I’m not familiar with the debate about meat taxes in Northern Europe, I’ve heard similar debates over junk food being taxed more because it’s unhealthy. It should be noted that my opinion here is coming from more of a North American perspective here, as I live in Canada.

    Personally, I do think there should be some sort of deterrent for purchasing unhealthy, unethical or environmentally-damaging products. I don’t necessarily have any suggestions for how to do this, but perhaps higher taxes for some of these products could work. But that should maybe only be done for non-essential items, such as junk food. Unfortunately, oil is a considerably harder to not use at all. Similarly, if oil was taxed more, I’d imagine that it would affect lower-income folks quite negatively, if all forms of transportation become much more expensive. Perhaps instead of taxing things more, alternatives (such as healthy food and bicycles, and whatever else) should just be more accessible and reasonably priced.

    As for who makes these decisions, that’s pretty hard to say. Ideally, people should be aware of these issues and make the best decisions for their health and the environment. But most people are completely oblivious. I’ve always found that the masses of people basically believe and practice the same things. I like to refer to this phenomenon as “Public Opinion, As Influenced by Private Interests” (which I’m going to use as a song title for one of my bands!). I’m sure we’ve all noticed that most people are quick to defend the status quo with rhetorical one-liners backed by convenient myths. There’s also the idea of “consumer sovereignty” in which consumers should be able to buy and consume (and over-consume) anything they want, and indulge in their own physical pleasures (even at the expense of others, such as animals, human labourers and the environment). I’d imagine most people wouldn’t take too well to higher taxes on products like meat (which the vast majority of people consume). These people would probably see it as some kind of attack on “their choice” or “freedom” to eat meat, and would start whining and complaining. Also, the meat industry would absolutely not want meat being taxed more, because their product (which nearly everyone consumes) would be consumed much less. I can’t see the meat industry ever allowing this to happen. Instead, as many people as possible just need to cut back on meat on their own accord.

    I don’t really have a solution here, but there is no doubt that things like healthy food should be much more accessible and affordable. If the Government wants to do actually do something good for the people and make this possible, such as taxing certain things more, that’s fine with me. I just don’t realistically see it happening, especially since it would affect large Corporations’ negatively.
     
  3. Harrison

    Harrison Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 11, 2009
     
    This. I'm not sure about Europe but in the US healthy food is insanely expensive and there's no way the lower class can afford it. God forbid you use foodstamps to buy it, people seem to get so mad (which is pretty funny actually). I don't think taxing environmentally unfriendly food/lifestyle choices is a bad idea, but I agree with Some Guy that the focus should be on making healthy choices more accessible.
     
  4. Voodoobwai

    Voodoobwai Member Forum Member


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    Apr 19, 2012
     Sweden
    "But most people are completely oblivious."

    And that's our main problem I guess. Too many people are stupid, ignorant or both. The rich part of the world is not interested in any changes at all (except economical growth, more power etc).
    And this is why I sometimes doubt the Anarchist stance; no authority/leaders/government control etc. (I'm fully aware that our leaders have made a really lousy job so far and still does and if we continue the lifestyles of the "economized" world we live in today we don't have that much time left). But how do we make those rapid changes that needs to be done? Who's to decide? And how do we make those changes into everyone's benefit?
    According to many environment scientists we need to make some pretty radical changes NOW if we're to survive at all.
    And as you said, the critics on meat tax (all taxes) are making it a class issue, which it is somehow (only rich people can afford healthy organically produced food, petrol for their cars and so on). Same question could be raised on cigarettes, alcohol and junkfood as you mentioned.
     
  5. sheep6665

    sheep6665 Active Member Forum Member


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    Aug 15, 2012
     
    Tax junk food = make it less accessible = people who are barely able to afford it gonna die or eat even more junky food.
    Bad idea.
     
  6. Spike one of many

    Spike one of many Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    The us government is actually subsidizing junk food by subsidizing corn crops, when they should be subsidizing health food.
     
  7. nclpw

    nclpw Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    This. Some people can't afford healthy food, making them pay even more taxes on the only food they can get is probably gonna kill them. Your first concern whne you don't have an income, or a very low one, is to get any food. Quality doesn't matter if you can't get enough energy to survive.
    First of all I don't even feel I need to have an opinion on this because obviously as an anarchist I'm against the system and yadda yadda, but people shouldn't have to pay(taxes) for things that are essential to survive.
     
  8. IamMe

    IamMe Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 29, 2012
     United Kingdom
    this is probably for a diffrent topic but have any one heard of GMO food (genetically modified organism). iv heard crazy shit about this stuff. back in the 90's there was a big deal over gmo crops and a bunch of hippy anarchists gatherd in fields where they were growing GMO crops and started ripping them up from the ground, these crops have had pesticieds added to thier DNA so that pests would die as soon as they began to eat the crop and the farmer's woudent need to spray chemicals on his crop they also minipulate the DNA so that the fruit's skin is tougher and wouldent brake/bruse easier, but there are people and scintists included who think that these added DNA cells get transferd to our DNA which results in our bodys turing into living pesticide factory's :o scary shit. but latley people have forgot about it and these fruit and veg are being sold in our supermarkets and GMO based animal feed are being fed to the livestock that people consume its pretty hard to avoid unless you eat organic but that shits reserved for the super rich. the govement say that its safe and is the only way to stop world hunger but i think that there doing it for profit and profit only. the only cheap way to avoid these GMO's is growing your own food from seeds that arnt GMO. and ye meat should have a higher tax on it so people would be forst to eat less, at the end of the day we humans can surive on fruit n veg alone we have in the past and im sure we will in the future :)
     
  9. Spike one of many

    Spike one of many Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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  10. Voodoobwai

    Voodoobwai Member Forum Member


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    Apr 19, 2012
     Sweden
    @ nclpw
    People consuming more and more meat and that industry produces something like half of all greenhouse gases (as you probably know).
    Why shouldn't you as an Anarchist have an opinion?
    Most people just don't give a shit, about anything. They want their meat, drive their car, traveling, consuming and television.
    Don't say that taxes will solve everything but how do you make people choose more wisely?
    (Meat lobby in Sweden think's "information" is the answer btw)
     
  11. nclpw

    nclpw Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    Well no, I mean it seems a waste of tie to even get involved/interested in these reforms when they're just that-reforms.
    Haha, yeah probably. I know meat is pretty cheap in Sweden anyway, I can't imagine a tax would affect the consumption of it.
     
  12. miss.defarge

    miss.defarge Member Forum Member


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    Jan 7, 2013
     
    Yes!

    In Canada, we don’t pay GST (or the GST part of HST) on “basic groceries” (veg, milk, bread), most medical products/services, education, and a few other things. Alas, this isn’t much of a financial incentive to avoid junk food, even though it is taxed.


    IamMe & spike, start the GMO topic somewhere, and I’ll join in. There’s some chatter about starting a GMO-focused MOOC so I’d be interested to hear what questions folks have.
     
  13. Voodoobwai

    Voodoobwai Member Forum Member


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    Apr 19, 2012
     Sweden
    "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way."
    Mark Twain
    \m/
     
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