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Non-Vegan and Green Anarchism

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by XxInGrindWeCrustxX, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. XxInGrindWeCrustxX

    XxInGrindWeCrustxX Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Sep 2, 2012
     
    So this might sound a little stupid, but I was wondering if Green Anarchists have to be vegan, or vegetarian. I think I remember someone talking about Green Anarchism being about returning to man's roots and becoming hunter gatherers. If you are eating meat to sustain yourselves and not to profit by millions and you truly respect nature is it right? Can you consider yourself a green-anarchist? Please help me understand the Anarchist ideas better.
     

  2. deadsmart

    deadsmart Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 19, 2009
     
    I would say that is just a matter of opinion. With Anarchism and its varying forms, you'll have ideas that conflict from time to time. Just like you say, some say Green Anarchism calls for veganism while others say its strictly about returning to the Earth's roots. I, personally, always considered Green Anarchism to be a general term to identify the more "environmentally-consious" anarchists.
     
  3. xXZenyattaXx

    xXZenyattaXx Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 29, 2012
     
    Well, let's clear something up here first.

    Green anarchism - Anarchism against current civilization, with a concern for environmental issues
    Anarcho-primitivism - Anarchism against all forms of civilization and modern technology

    So, it's confusing (especially since they have the same colors n shit) but they are not quite interchangeable. You could have a person who identifies as a green anarchist who is against the current incarnation of civilization, one that is anti-industrialization, or one that is against civilization entirely (anti-civ) but they are not anarcho-primitivists if they aren't also against technology. There can be an anti-science component too, anti-agriculture, anti-organized religion, etc. all the special salts that make up the individual stew.

    Now, veganism n shit. I'm not sure what you mean here, because you sorta lumped two things together.... but umm there's really no "How to be an green-anarcho-primitivist in 10 Easy steps." bible that every one has to follow. You even go and uh, work for the fucking Green party (ewww). I've heard of a few green anarchists doing that. The only valid labels are the ones we give ourselves.

    Veganism has its dirty secrets that them vegans don't tell ya. (No offense to thee vegan folk). It really doesn't make you better in terms of environmentalism n shit. Sure, you'll be healthier and you'll be able to sleep at night untroubled by nightmares of headless, tortured chickens (except for the rabbits that get cut up on the industrial farming equipment - oops!), quite a substantial bonus indeed, but all that good will do little else. Your food still comes from fucking agribusiness, one of the dirtiest and heavily polluting/resource wasting/nature raping industries there is. Even if you grow yer own food in yer backyard and shit, doing that alone will not change a thing. For every you there's a thousand motherfucking middle-class families sitting at their tables and slurping cow boobie milk and munching deformed pig bits.

    Really though, if you love the world and don't want the capitalist machine to destroy it, don't place so much emphasis on personal choices like going vegan. FUcking capitalists don't care if you're vegan. Take the problem to the source - the machine itself - and shut it down.
     
  4. XxInGrindWeCrustxX

    XxInGrindWeCrustxX Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Sep 2, 2012
     
    Thanks. Really answered some questions I had in mind.
     
  5. Caps

    Caps Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 3, 2010
     
    As Zenyatta pointed out there is no strict answer. Anarchism is a broad set of beliefs based on one central principle (no rulers) and Green Politics is the same (based on the principle of respect or concern for the environment). Most anarchists are 'green' on some level because respect for the environment is necessary for survival of the planet and its occupants. Besides, most anarchists believe in working in harmony with the environment and adapting to their surroundings rather than destroying things selfishly for short-term 'gains'. Zenyatta's two strands are well summarised and the most important for your question:

    Green Anarchists, in fact all Anarchists, would probably be wise to consider what they purchase and what they choose to avoid to purchase/consume. There is no doubt that being vegan can significantly reduce your carbon footprint and your impact on the environment. It's not a fail-safe nor a prerequisite of Green politics but it's not a bad choice either. I'm sure Danarchy, if he reads this, would be able to explain how his agricultural project is a highly effective form of Green living, vegan or otherwise. (In fact, you could just look over some of his previous posts). So, simply 'no' Green Anarchism does not necessarily require veganism. But there are a number of other reasons to be vegan (some people do consider veganism a prerequisite of Anarchism generally, not just Green Anarchism). It's up to the individual to determine their appropriate position but I'd hope all Anarchists would seriously think about their position.

    Anarcho-primitivists are another kettle of fish. If we keep it in crude generalities, the Primitive ideal is to go back to a hunter-gatherer society. This would require killing animals to live as it was, generally and historically speaking, a necessity. The difficult thing with Primitivists is it's hard to establish how they think people should live in modern day, capitalist society. Should they retire to the woods and live off nuts and bird's eggs? Or should they just do whatever the fuck they like, buy whatever the fuck they like and then slag it all off while fantasising civilisation's downfall? I would certainly argue that Primitivism does not demand veganism. To highlight this, I'd mention the book 'The Vegetarian Myth' by Lierre Keith who denounces veganism and vegetarianism as unhealthy (as in fatally dangerous) and completely unsustainable. She argues that food choices have been manipulated and basically wrong ever since the origin of agriculture in any form. Her views can generally be considered 'out-there' to say the least (others would argue without some form of systematic crop growth, people will starve due to scarcity - though, I'm not sure Keith would be too worried about this). Anyway, these views have found support from Primitivists (not least of all Derrik Jensen) because it does base some if its views on Primitivist principles.

    BUT, you should consider your position on veganism, as should everyone. And Zenyatta's point about capitalists not caring is all well and good but I'd go with the logic that change starts with yourself. Don't think your lifestyle is the endpoint of your politics and activism but the starting point. There is no need and little excuse for consumer apathy.
     
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