anti flag good or bad?

i criticize them because they are standing up against capitalism but they were part of it..because of their signing on a fuckin major..
for me gruops like bad religion anti flag and nofx are institutionalised

 

I used to listen em,die for the government is awesome,and their first bass player had a good voice and was good playing the bass.
fuck police brutality is an anthem..but after they sold out their "anticapitalist attitude"

 

The Chumbawamba anti-corporate song "Pass It Along" was featured in a GM commercial, for which the band received about seventy thousand pounds. The commercial that was made with the song was an unmemorable flop, whose only real attention in the media was from people raising eyebrows bout the transparently anti-coporate song which was used. The money Chumbawamba made was donated in halves to IndyMedia groups and Corpwatch, who used the money to boost their campaigns to spread awareness of the damage that GM does to the Earth. So, without really helping the company to sell cars, Chumbawamba managed to part GM with a large sum of cash and invest it in groups with decent agendas. In the meantime, it didn't hurt at all that the only attention that GM got in the media regarding the commercials were baffled stories which referenced specific anti-corporate groups and campaigns (further raising awareness of efforts to thwart corporate shittiness) and made GM look cynical and foolish all at once.

I think the idea of taking money from a capitalist and using it against them is a perfectly upstanding anarchist position. After all, once you're in the big guy's house why not steal the light fixtures before security escort you from the building? Do you know how much damage you can do to a machine from the inside out? A surprising amount, it turns out.

I doubt it, but who knows whether Anti-Flag took the money for their commercial song use and put it to a radical application? I hope they did. If they didn't, then let's agree that they're traitors and maggots and money-grubbing worms.

 

I don't know,i never will buy an album if is edited by CBS or GEFFEN,because I just don't wanna do something pro their fucking trade..I am for DIY..if you buy a cd from the CBS you help this major to increase its power..you cannot win a battle against the system alone being a part of it..let's smash this fucking system of oppression..no money in their hands=no capitalism
thats my point of view dude.. \m/

 

Well I guess that's all well and good, and I respect your integrity. But the world is a dark, horrible place where well-intended niceness counts for nothing, and where well-intended ruthlessness more often gets the goods. Plus, what is DIY? Who is DIY? How DIY is DIY? Do the people DIYing necessarily have any better of an idea of what they're saying, doing or DIYing than the people you would say aren't DIY? 'Cause like I said; NoFX are DIY... and they're a bunch of counter-revolutionary tools.

And, y'know, there's a lot of interesting music out there that's on major or even small non-punx-DIY labels that happens to be fantastic music that pushes boundaries and challenges perceptions and says interesting shit, and where the music actually is DIY (as in the artist produces the albums independently and is signed to the label for the ability to have somebody else release them). What do you say of that, when at the same time there is music that fits the punk aesthetic, is on the DIY punk labels, has all of the DIY punk trappings, but reaches hardly anybody and says nothing of interest or that wasn't already self-evident to the small crowd who pick the record up (or says abhorrent, worthless things to them)?

And, hey, these little "punk DIY" labels are constantly being caught out in shitfights where it turns out that the owners are actually backstabbing capitalists who cheat the artists out of money they could've used to eat. So, whether or not the music is coming out on the "responsible" labels is irrelevant, since a lot of them are run by irresponsible jerkasses.

 

yeah I know,however I said my point of view..For what you said about nofx I fucking agree!!=)
You have the right when you say that sometimes in this fucking horrible place called world who does radical choices of life is everyday put in trouble by things bigger than him..it's sad to say..but never give up man!!

 

I know my first post should be an intro but this thread really bugs me. My old band used to play shows with Anti-Flag back in the 90's. A lot. Granted I haven't heard anything past Die For Your Government but back when I was around them they were very for real in their beliefs and anyone who says they weren't is an idiot. They were really trying to change the world. Whether they still are or not I can't say but back then they were the real deal. Apparently they still have fairly political lyrics (once again only going on what I have read). Now if they signed to a major label so what? What good does a message like theirs do if it is only heard by people who already have the same beliefs? That's right, NONE. So if by signing to a major label they were heard by some kid who was en route to be a frat boy date rapist and didn't go that route because AF made him realize the world isn't as hunky dory as the governments would have you believe I say "So be it.". The simple fact that they got lyrics about how corrupt the govt/corps are released on albums distributed worldwide and heard by an audience bigger than punks makes them more punk than any of you here defacing them.

AF wrote a song about you guys called Punk By The Book. Who the fuck do you think you are to define what Punk is and isn't when it is a lifestyle based on the fact that we don't want others' rules imposed on us.

If you don't like them. Fine. But don't try to detract from the good they have done. They aren't racist, fascist, sexist or any "ist". And they share the same worldview as the rest of us. They aren't rich and never have been.

Sorry for the rant

 

Brian, you're entitled to your point of view but could you not cast wild generalisations around? At least read the posts thoroughly first, we're not all saying antiflag are bad. And those of us that are have backed up their positions (some poorly, some well). I even stuck up for bands who appear to "sell out" so could you not get pissed with all of us because just a few of us disagree with you?

We're not judging who's fit to be punk, we're trying to discuss whether we feel antiflag have been a force for good or not. Clearly you think they have been a force for good. Couldn't you have just argued that point? I happen to agree with you somewhat but your attack on us for being elitists is mind boggling.

 

Sorry sounded a little more dickish than I meant for it to. I was drunk and already pissed off anyway. But the "Oh noez they signed to a major now they suck!!!" mentality is stupid. If they spread some anti-govt ideology to even one person that would have otherwise blindly followed what society told them...then good. I'm all for it. Like I said before; What good is making political music if the only people that hear it already have the same ideology? The word has to be spread somehow. By any means necessary.

 

do you really have personally known anti flag?is it true that justin was straight edge?

 

Yes I knew them and as far as I know he wasn't straight edge. We got drunk together but there is always a chance that he was before I met him and I just never knew. Never thought to ask and it never came up.

 

I agree with you and I'm glad you've mellowed out a bit. I say, as long as somebody isn't violating steadfast principles of their own to do it, what harm is spreading the message? I mean shit, RATM got thousands of kids excited about radicalism and they've never exactly been out of the mainstream arena for long.

SoAD as well, excellent example- bringing the message to people who would've otherwise probably just been wastrel nu-metal fans incapable of critical thought and numbed into submission by the samey music of POD and Limp Bizkit. Doesn't make them sell-outs, makes them creative users of the large-scale distribution apparatus.

 

Well, I already know i am going to get shit for this. So no offense fuck off if you don't like it. Anti-flag, to me, is an amazing band. Looking at some of people posts, you have stated they are sell-outs or someone said they are emo.

First of all I can see the main reason why you all say they sold out. "They signed to a major label". BUT, if you actually did your research, they had constantly denied record labels because they did know they wouldn't be able to do what they wanted. And even though they signed on a record label under NOFX (a very sucky band in my opinion), they only did it because that record label allowed them to do what they wanted. After those 2 CD's, they went straight back to their own record label, A-F Records, which could be the label to some of the bands you love. You never know. And if they were signed to other labels they were probably doing the same thing, getting the word out, and trying to re-define what the mainstream thought of punk is.
But going back, did any of you ever think that they went to the major record label to get their message out better. It is actually not a bad idea. If more bands went mainstream but stuck to their roots, the punk scene would be recognized how it should be, and not by Blink-182, Sum 41, or Green Day.
Every album by Anti-Flag is very political and they try very hard to get involved in any protest or whatever they can.

They were involved in Occupy, and a protest to stop the military from accessing students files, it was called Military Free Zone. They are involved with PETA, who's idealistic's i agree with (unless they involve me not eating meat, I NEED MY MEAT).
And their song "Die For Your Government" was sung by anti-war protesters who briefly blocked a road to prevent US troops from deploying to Iraq in August 2010.

They constantly sing about Politics, anti Nazism/Fascism, insulting Bush on The Terror State, posers', corruption, anti-racism, police brutality.
They also charge a very small amount of money for shows. I was in Detroit during Occupy, and they were playing at a very small theater. It was only $10! But the only catch was you had to get the tickets offline. They could charge hundreds of bucks for something small and exclusive. Like a bunch of bands do. Like anyone in most of the other genre's of music.
And they are heavily Straight Edge. and they don't push it on others. I will say that doesn't necessarily make you a punk band, but i find it quite admirable of anyone dedicated to Straight Edge. I'm Straight Edge, and i couldn't be happier with that lifestyle choice.

And someone said their new stuff sounds emo. HOW? They are still talking about politics, corruption, media, and taking our rights as human beings. I have listened to emo music to laugh my ass off at the really mainstream, worthless, meaningless lyrics, pointless bands and songs that REAL EMOS listen to. They are quite failed. All they talk about is depression and love. That is far from Anti-Flag sings about.

That's my opinion, and if i made any of you think, good. If not, FUCK OFF and don't hound me about who i like. Get over it, because i am still going to by every punks side if a revolution comes. AND I WILL FIGHT.

 

Well, well, that's all very cute but being rude and aggressive about it is quite unnecessary. No one will ostracize you because you like Anti-Flag. As for the old argument of "reaching a wider audience to spread the message by signing to a bigger label", just look where it got Chumba and remember that the medium and the way a band does things are as important as the content.

And Anti-Flag did completely rip off a From Ashes Rise song in such a gross fashion that it is just hilarious how they could get away with it (and with a cheesy video of the boys rocking out hard no less).

 

Hello. To get to things quick. That is my post about Anti-Flag. I was using my girlfriends account. I now have my own as you can see. I did not mean to seam rude or aggresive. I have always liked that band and people have criticized me for it. I just hate how some people call you a poser because you are wearing the fashion and its so stereotypical or because your not a punk unless you wear the fashion. Or you have to like the right bands.

 

You mean, you hate how people lump you in the poser category because you like a band that was on a major record label. I don't see how fashion has anything to do with Anti-flag. :/

Sometimes I think infiltration is the best offense, if you know what I mean.

 

I know. I was just babbling about being called a poser.

 

I guess I’ll share my opinion, just for fun, and to provide a perspective that most people don’t seem to factor in…

Personally, I really like Anti-Flag. They definitely aren’t one of my favourite bands, but I do quite enjoy them.

I understand that many people dislike Anti-Flag releasing two albums on a major label, for political and ethical reasons. But one huge problem I have with people who instantly discredit Anti-Flag for being on a major label, is that these same ideological/political/ethical values still apply to the rest of us also.

Personally, I take buying only ethical stuff and living as ethically as humanly possible extremely seriously (buying Fair Trade products, dumpster diving, buying/trading used stuff, and rarely buying new stuff). But unfortunately, most people don't. So if anyone is going to criticize Anti-Flag for any such reasons, I'd hope they don't shop at Wal-Mart, buy Coke and Pepsi products, buy products that use forced labour, slave labour and so on. Otherwise, such an individual is pretty much just as bad as the band they're criticizing. I'm not saying Anti-Flag shouldn't be scrutinized a bit, I just find it ridiculous when certain people criticize others/bands for something, when that individual supports similar things that they're being critical of. You can’t criticize someone, but be exempt from the same practices.

While I’m not a huge advocate of them being on a major label, from a utilitarian standpoint, them getting wider distribution (even at the expense of a compromise in values), could very well be worthwhile. In my mind, more people should be exposed to the punk culture and values. Personally, I was introduced to “punk” from bands like blink-182 and Sum 41 when I was 13, and I absolutely loved what I heard. Obviously, I moved onto better bands after a while, but these bands were my introduction. So if people can be introduced to punk through bands like Anti-Flag and Rise Against, these people will start off with exponentially better bands than I did, and could discover even better bands much sooner than I did. Because seriously, most of us are introduced to punk from bands like Rancid and NOFX, so I’d imagine Anti-Flag would make an exponentially better “introductory” punk band. Anti-Flag are probably the most progressive/radical-leaning band of all the more accessible bands, which is a good thing for more mainstream audiences.

 

Holy fuck... That's a whole hell of a lot of assumptions...I don't like them because I think their music sucks, their politics are liberal, their anti-capitalist rhetoric has been utterly shattered by their own mistakes and their are many many greater bands out their available to listen to, life is much too short to waste it listening to crap...but by all means....anti-flag yourselves to your hearts content.

 

Obviously, preference in music is completely subjective, so I wouldn't personally refer to any music as crap. If you want to exclusively listen to radical/anarchist music, that's cool. Personally, I'm fine with listening to slightly less radical lyrics too. Typically, less radical lyrics wouldn't be so off-putting for less radical folks (such as the mainstream world), they serve as a better introduction point. Of course, there are many greater bands out there, but my main point is that Anti-Flag are a great introductory punk band. Most of us don't come out of our mother womb's listening to MDC, Oi Polloi, Aus-Rotten, Propagandhi, reading radical literature and getting involved in radical activism. Most of us have to be introduced to this culture/ideology, usually through less radical sources.

In regards to their anti-capitalist rhetoric, of course they've compromised themselves in some ways (which I'm not a fan of either), but it's hard to live in accordance to our ideals 100% of the time. I'd imagine most of us make minor compromises in our lives, such as working jobs we may not like, knowingly buying products that utilize exploited labour and so on.