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Similarity In Marxism and Anarchism

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Utopian, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. Utopian

    Utopian Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 9, 2012
     
    Does Marxist and anarchism have any similar ideas?
     

  2. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Short answer: yes.
    Slightly qualified answer: depends on what you consider as 'Marxist'. Certainly the dominant Marxist ideas of Marxist-Leninism (and its multiple offshoots - the trots, maoists, etc) are reactionary bollocks, but there are multiple other streams of Marxist thinking that, from my perspective, are incredibly useful.
    Perhaps a few texts will serve as a brief overview of some of this 'useful stuff':
    'Leninism and the Ultra-Left' in Eclipse and Re-emergence of the Communist Movement by Gilles Dauve and Francois Martin is a pretty neat little overview of the communist ultra-left.

    Autonomist Marxism and the Information Society by Nick Dyer-Witheford is a good intro to autonomist marxism. (Steve Wright's 'Storming Heaven' is a moar detailed overview if yr interested.)

    I also recently read Guattari and Negri's New Lines of Alliance, New Spaces of Liberty, it was quite neat.

    I guess also of interest is the stuff in Sic, Riff Raff, Endnotes and Aufheben.

    Edit: oh yeah, Marx is pretty awesome, lol.
     
  3. Utopian

    Utopian Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 9, 2012
     
    ok cool thanks,i never studied marxs work only lenins and maos.


    do you think that you get the communist manifesto in public library?
     
  4. Danarchy

    Danarchy Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 16, 2012
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    The communist manifest is available just about everywhere, I would suggest buying a copy at used bookstore that does not use barcode tracking and pay cash. Library borrowing is track by the FBI and has been used to initiate several investigations. Stores like Chapters track customer purchases and there is no reason why such information could not be used in the future against you.

    I would also read the arguments between Marx/ Engles and Bakunin as much of what Bakunin had to say transpired as he said it would in the Russian revolution such as the vangard party becoming an oppressive state, repression of the revolution once power was achieved etc. Personally, I like alot of what Marx had to say but I agree with Bakunin, also, Alexander Berkmans ABC of Anarchist Communism is a good read.

    I would also suggest exploring Syndicalism as well as a method of initiating and structuring an Anarchist r/evolution. As the basis of Syndicalism is worker control of workplace as well as the trade union organisation it provides a more suitable format for preventing the creation of a new centralised power structure than Communism as can be seen in many of the 1930's labour movements and in Spain. However, again the Social Democrats and Communists undermined the relatively classless structure of the trade unions and formulated a top down structure alienating the rank and file as well as pacifying the more radical elements. Many of the 'gains' of the labour movements we actually compromises to stifle the r/evolutionary unions in favour of regaining social stability. Over time those forces against the labour movement have strategically removed many of the gains, in many instances at the blessing of social democrats and under the guise of fiscal accountability.
     
  5. Utopian

    Utopian Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 9, 2012
     
    sweet thanks but some questions:
    why dont you type r/evolution this way revolution
    also im from europe i dont think that fbi will be interested in me,but i will buy communist manifest (second hand) when im going to ljubljana
     
  6. apples&onions

    apples&onions Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 16, 2012
     
    Cause " revolution" is in archaic ideal. R/evolution, evolution happens regardless. We need to make true progress, not industrial/scientific/civilized/technological progress. Progress with a capital p is a lie. Human and nature does not need to be developed for any ends. We're not gonna get anywhere as long as we are on Biff's timeline. Read the "Some Principles Of History" passage I posted in the "What to do with people in anarchistic society that don't follow the new program?" thread. People and communities do not need to be developed, they can take care of each other. Humanity has learned alot, although we are still quite young.
     
  7. Caps

    Caps Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 3, 2010
     
    If there are any anarchist/socialist bookshops near you, they should have a cheap edition of the Manifesto. I got it for £2 as a pamphlet in a London shop.

    In terms of what they're against, you could sometimes read Bakunin and mistake it for Marx (no doubt, Bakunin borrowing from Marx and both of them borrowing from Proudhon). In terms of what they favour and how they plan to get there, the differences are massive.
     
  8. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    A lot here in Australia do, I assume its similar elsewhere?
    You could always just read Marx online:
    http://marxists.org/archive/marx/index.htm

    But if I was to pick a book by Marx to read, it'd be the Grundrisse. It's, for me, by far his most interesting text. (if yr feeling super nerdy, Negri's Marx Beyond Marx is a pretty good companion piece).

    I think Marx kinda critiqued Proudhon rather than just borrowed from him, or, to put it another way, he borrowed from Proudhon in order to develop something else. Certainly Marx talks about Proudhon in terms of his dissatisfaction with Proudhon's theories.
     
  9. Caps

    Caps Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Marx did develop some of Proudhon's ideas. He did also dismiss a lot of Proudhon. However, Marx spent a lot of time ripping Proudhon apart largely because of a falling out. The Poverty of Philosophy was as much an attempt to get back at Proudhon as it was a genuine critique. There were lots of times where Marx was dismissive of Proudhon's influence but 'What is Property?' is definitely acknowledged as an important part of Marx' development.
     
  10. Danarchy

    Danarchy Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I don't believe in revolution in the sense that a massive revolt would spontaneously erupt and pave the way for the creation of anarchist systems/ communities. I believe that the progress towards anarchism is radical evolution of social thinking, that prior to a revolutionary event those dedicated to the philosophy of Anarchism should be involved in creating and coordination between autonomous spaces/ communities that provide opportunities to express anarchist models allowing the gradual evolution of anarchist practice to be implimented into the greater society. Thus I believe in a revolution that requires evolution in thought, practice and deed or r/evolution.
     
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