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Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by trevor9849, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. nike

    nike Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    what a loss!
    quoting kidder kaper after reading all about fascism in the prison ramblings of a selfstyled "fighter" and savior of the aryan okzident:
    just too bad that writers like hannah arendt, Stanley Payne, Roger Griffin and Robert O. Paxton aren't that fashionable.

    bad taste benito mussolini about his german friend and ally's work:
    "a boring tome that I have never been able to read, hitler's beliefs, as expressed in the book, are little more than commonplace clichés" o_O
     
  2. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Well, stanley payne isn't really good taste (anymore) - he was never more than a "republican", completely missing out the authoritarian aspect of fascism and calling stalinism and communism as one and the very same, never questioning capitalism.
    Now he's turning over to the revisionists like pio moa, blaming PC for the "one-sidedness" of the public history of the spanish civil war and the "leftists/republicans" side for being "guilty" in the war... collecting one "conservative" award after the next and I wouldn't be surprised if he's watching kipper caspar or whot's his name too - definitely bad taste.
     
  3. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well, stanley payne isn't really good taste (anymore) - he was never more than a "republican", completely missing out the authoritarian aspect of fascism and calling stalinism and communism as one and the very same, never questioning capitalism.
    Now he's turning over to the revisionists like pio moa, blaming PC for the "one-sidedness" of the public history of the spanish civil war and the "leftists/republicans" side for being "guilty" in the war... collecting one "conservative" award after the next and I wouldn't be surprised if he's watching kipper caspar or whot's his name too - definitely bad taste.
    Too academic, too theoretical, and too much sitting still over da books too?
     
  4. xvengzx

    xvengzx New Member New Member


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    Jul 26, 2011
     
    no man, anarchy means freedom, and freedom means do whatever you want man, if you like to hear something doesnt matters if its christian or what the fuck you want heh
    []s
     
  5. Bakica

    Bakica Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    You have some interesting interpretation of freedom. :ecouteurs:
     
  6. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    not really, he forgot about the beer... o_O
     
  7. 4sostrander

    4sostrander New Member New Member


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    Sep 26, 2011
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    Hahah, yeah. Instead of being Hateful Music, it'd be both Hateful and Hilariously stupid music!
     
  8. t-bag

    t-bag Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 24, 2009
     
    You like their music?. Anal Cunt made horrible music. That and there are plenty of other bands out there with equally as horrible music and a more positive message. Personally, i can deal with a couple of lyrics i disagree with and just enjoy the ones i do agree with. But i will never promote or support a hateful band...strictly because i enjoy their "Music".
     
  9. Rev5

    Rev5 Member New Member


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    Sep 28, 2011
     
    I can understand listening to a band whose music you like, but lyrics you don't exactly agree with, and though I believe as most of you that listening to it and liking it doesn't always mean you align yourself with the bands beliefs - especially when you've yet to listen to all their music or read all their lyrics - I still think you're going to have a hard time passing off that "It's just music" rhetoric to someone who takes great personal offense to the message and/or your seemingly passive attitude towards it. I think there's a quote that wraps this thought up a lot nicer: "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."

    Still, I'm hesitant to openly call out anyone on anything for simply listening to a band. They might not know about it, since a lot of the information isn't always accessible, and if it is, is scattered amongst B.S. opinion; that is, of course, directed at band members actions and thoughts, not lyrics, though those too can be hard to find for some - lesser known - bands. Personally, however, I do tend to stay away from anyone who wears anything G.G. Allin, only because around where I live (not sure about anyone else's area), that's usually a sign that the person is either an prejudiced/bigoted ass-hat, or simply thinks being an anarchist means meaningless violence and destruction. That only makes sense to me, and why I will never consider any music as "just" music, regardless of whether or not I agree with the message; music has the power to unite, as we see here on this website, as well as countless times in history; it has the power to save lives, personally speaking from a time in my life when I was in deep depression. I'm sure we've all had one of those moments when a songs message just hit us with an epiphany that - more or less - made us REALLY think about our lives and what we believe in.
     
  10. metalpunx

    metalpunx Active Member Forum Member


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    May 26, 2010
     
    This question doesn't have a simple yes or no answer.

    Take black metal for example. Even acts that aren't openly racist often have questionable connections and I'll readily admit that I listen to acts that have members or lyrical content that might be ideologically opposed to my beliefs. However, I don't see any hypocrisy in this considering I don't listen to black metal for entertainment; to me its a musical catharsis. The genre, at least to me, represents negativity. Hatred, senseless violence, and despair are all manifested in the music and its a good way to purge it from your system. The same goes for dark ambient and power electronics.

    On the other hand, I can't bring myself to listen to bands like Skrewdriver or the like, because I've always related punk to protest. Its self-righteousness, hope, a desire for justice, etc. Even when the lyrics are bleak, ultimately it drives towards a better tomorrow. In the case of racist/sexists/homophobic punk bands, its a future that I don't want nor do I want to be any part of.
     
  11. nike

    nike Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    sounds a bit odd to me, some of the promoters of the genre claim the "effect" too - but in the realities?
    music big biz doesn't sells katharsis but confirment and reassurance of believes - this stuff isn't produced for arts or the betterment of the worlds but for peer groups targeted for their "need"
    - so i guess the results justify a far more careful approach - if not a complete boykott to sour the buisness selling nightmares for a price.
    the whole rightwing noise like scumdriver ect. regards itself as a protest movement too, just like other rat-catchers they defend morals, traditions and the rights of the "people" - smartasses call it "anti-modernism", and this was always a common trait of fascists, the mussolini freaks may be the only example from this.
     
  12. NumberLast

    NumberLast Active Member Forum Member


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    Oct 17, 2010
     
    To me, it's possible to listen to a band with slightly differing ideals, but not opposite theology. EG. Nazi or racist music in punk. I don't agree with all the ideals of the Descendents, who can be extremely homophobic at times, or Crass (Do They Owe Us A Livng pisses me off, I believe in working hard for everything you've got) but I love, and listen to both. Now that said, I tend to avoid fans of GG Alin and the Casualties. Some are misguided but decent people, but the majority believe "chaos is their life."
     
  13. nike

    nike Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    dunno, i still have issues with german bands like "slime" or "hass" - anarchist punks promoting RAF-worship and preaching mind- and useless "kill the pigs" sermons - quite boring if one knows the background and more than destructive with less orientated kid punks.
    (the RAF was marxist-leninist, always eager to become the ruling elite of the militant movement - and after a brief time of armed action against us-imperialism and it's german support they completely lost the initiative, totally absorbed with freeing their leading heads baader-ensslin-meinhof from the high security jail in stammheim - c'est fini anti-imperialism...)
    to me, crass had some great ideas and gave an example of intelligent activism - but anarchy & peace only is a bit blue-eyed and i wonder how they would have developed after 1984 - on the other hand:
    do they own us a living in times of mass unemployment and the dire lack of opportunities to work for yourself? of course they do!
     
  14. metalpunx

    metalpunx Active Member Forum Member


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    May 26, 2010
     
    To clarify, the black metal I listen to tends to be raw, closer to Blasphemy and Von, than Burzum and the countless clones. "Calm" or "DSBM" defeats the purpose of it to me. If I wanted to chill, I'd listen to instrumental hip hop or classical. Of course, everyone finds something different when they put on a record regardless of the genre.
     
  15. nike

    nike Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    burzum is really a very special quality :ecouteurs: and the countless clones prove that this kind of shit is more successful than healthy to the enviroment, i know several people still defending their first recordings as "interesting", but to me it's just the braindead anti-modernist attempt to jump on the train of the growing "heathen"-nazi movement in northern europe. mixing h.p. lovecraft weird fiction content with sumeric magicks (!), skandinavian hero legends with tolkiens phantasies about the "evil" east of middle earth... omigods - finally vikernes went completely over the top, murdering and arsoning churches and becoming the legend of „National Socialist Black Metal“ :o quite a career:
    little boy blue getting evil, evil boy blue getting nazi hero heathen...
    and i still think every bought cd, every download from the nets supports this nauseating shit!
     
  16. metalpunx

    metalpunx Active Member Forum Member


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    May 26, 2010
     
    Vikernes is a clown. Why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me, especially considering these days you're more likely to find hipsters wearing his t-shirts than a neo-nazi. That said, while I don't enjoy his music - I'm not a Christian but I still admire a lot of classical music even if it glorifies a religion that I don't want anything to do with. Art, whether or not you personally enjoy, often develops independent of the artist.

    Consider this; the entire "Red Anarchist Black Metal" movement, for better or worse, wouldn't exist without Vikernes' influence as most of the acts in the scene draw influence, directly or indirectly, from his music.
     
  17. Bentheanarchist

    Bentheanarchist Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    Burzum isn't the only black metal band; The red and Anarchist bands take influence from other black metal bands; Burzum sucks anyways!
     
  18. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    asshole varg isn't really a clown, i don't know how intelligent he is, but his personal story and the way he went step by step from tolkiens twilight of the elves to "i wanna sit on a heap of corpses inna death camp" and then to elaborated writings about gassing 99% of the world population, wall in scandinavia and erect a living valhalla is a perfect example how to develop a fascist idol. depending on how hes talking to he twists and turns from satanism to neo-paganism, open antisemitism and holocaust denial to rejection of the nazi ideology - then he tells german boneheads that the 3rd reich was the ideal "evil" state... each one gets what varg thinks necessary to spread the word...
    his musical influence on the genre is no argument - his ambition, attitude and deeds are far more important and i guess it depends very much on where you life to realize the significance he achieved in northern and eastern europe - some weirdo idiots calling themself "einsatzkommando" (during WWII special ss-units massmurdering jews and russian civilians via bullet and fire) tried to free him from jail... and i guess it's not surprising that his actual home page is english AND russian, most of his fans are russians with close contact to the neo-nazi movement.
    funny thing: during his time in jail he switched from black metal to ambient... next try to find a new medium? but he promised to release future albums in the "old" style too... varg cares for his fans.
    the "red" black metal isn't much better than the nazi-stuff, stalinism wasn't romantic and killed in the long run more people than the nazis managed in 12 years, again the music is more than just popular with neo-stalinists in east europe, we already had some trouble with two groups in poland up to the point where they asked for a good anarchist bashing the shits out of them.
    to me black metal is pure bullshit, maybe it's an expression of marginalized and isolated people turning misanthropic in their personal misery - too bad if things like this become buizness and start to have strange effects, especially "political" ones.
     
  19. nike

    nike Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 19, 2011
     
    the guy vikernes massacred with more than 20 knife-stabs (i forgot his name) was one of the famous red black metallers, formerly a good friend of vikernes, both cooperated on several recordings. according to vikernes he killed him in selfdefence (i guess thats why most of the wounds were in the back of the victim...) scene rumors spoke of financial depts and vikernes "sudden" homophobia.
     
  20. Crimecore

    Crimecore Active Member Forum Member


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    Nov 4, 2011
     
    Holy shit, I go by the GG Allin rule too to be honest. Holy fuck. There's a band called Antiseen that was pretty much a couple members of his band while he was alive, my old band the Scams played with them, and I didn't know anything about them. We opened for them and they came out wearing fucking confederate flags as kkk masks. I flipped my fucking shit. Lost friends that night that tried to assure me it was a joke...fuck that, not a hilarious visual if you ask me. Fuck I hated that.
     
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