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Why is PE frowned upon here?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Unite&Resist36, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    That's like saying "i have a distro and i sell punk albums for $30 each, but hey, if you don't like it don't buy it"

    Lies ? The fact that Profane Existence is selling posters for $25 is not a lie, it is a fact.

    As for the ripoff, many arguments were already brought up, i don't have the time to repeat myself right now.
     
  2. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    How do you figure it's uninformed? I knew all those things you mentioned I just don't agree with them, fuck no I won't buy it are you kidding? We 'hand silk screen' all the time on nice stock with great art and don't feel we should charge an extra $21 because its done by "(quite a famous art print collective) and are hand signed by the artist" that's the bullshit I'm talking about Dan, according to you even when you do wrong it's not wrong, you see yourself as infallible, incapable of mis-stepping,....ever. And as far as spreading 'lies' you know damn well you have done numerous bands wrong, instead of apologizing and admitting that mistakes were done, you just deny and make excuses. Tell us how it is a lie that you aren't anti copy-left.
     
  3. Dan

    Dan Member Forum Member


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    Haha... just like a $14.99 shirt is no lie. But compared to PE's shirts for $8 or less (for double sided) yours are a total rip-off.

    Funny you have time to post trash talk but no time to substantiate anything. Whatevs.
     
  4. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    You know damn well that the 14.99 is a donation to a group of non-profit websites in return for which you receive a t-shirt, and yours are for profit...really big difference Dan. You can call it trash talking all you want but the things I'm bringing up are true...they are all over the net for anyone to see that takes the time to look...APN is not in competition with PE, that just does not interest us...and again you avoid the copy-left issue.
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Member Forum Member


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    How is raising money to record and release records any different than raising money to support a web site?

    And the accusation that I've ever profited from Profane Existence is a bald-faced lie. All the years I've worked here (yes, it's WORK doing what we do) I've never even been paid minimum wage.

    It's totally sad that you have so much anger and hostility towards us simply because we asked you to remove our records from your web site.
     
  6. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I think this needs to be more clear
    because at times it certainly doesn't seem that way
     
  7. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Dan you also trash talked APN on your website to no end calling us fake anarchists etc. Why do you try to come off as so innocent?

    Ok you explain to me exactly how we are in competition with PE Surgery? Do we sell records? Do we sell artwork? Do we advocate against copy-left? All we are is an anarchist punk forum that has some shirts for sale for donations to a group of websites. If Dan would really think about it, having his labels music on this site wouldn't hurt PE, it would help, I know when I hear a band's music that I really like and can support as far as politics...I go out of my way to support them, whether it's buying their vinyl or merch or tour support, and it's been that way long before PE ever existed, tapes spread almost everything around back in the early days and music made it around the world through those tapes and snail mail.

    If their is some way to bury the hatchet between us and PE then I welcome it, but that is solely my opinion and I can't of course speak for everyone, like I said before, I don't really think you are interested in that Dan.
     
  8. persona-non-grata

    persona-non-grata Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    if you record release and SELL your record you're making money again see how it's diffrent from raising money for the sites???

    if you consider music work you're in it for the wrong reason overall

    you did not just ask to remove your stuff you insulted every one on this site and called us a bunch of fake anarchist just becouse we were sharing your music your message to other people without in any way giving you any profit for it and of course you can't be losing any of your profit becouse you're allready losing money playing your music (boohoohoo) :ecouteurs:

    sincerely up yours

    nutz!
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Hahahahahaha $14.99 t-shirts are a rip-off ?? What a fucking joke. Unlike you we don't make profit off the things we sell. Stop being an hypocrite Dan, i know from source that PERSONALLY know you that you make a LOT of money from Profane Existence. About 2 years ago you bought a brand new car from the sales of your label.
    Also, you are a fucking thief and i already proved it 1 year ago. You have put google ads on your website (what a fucking ripoff, biggest capitalist ads on an "anarcho" website) and then you pretended your website cost over $100 hosting fees. This is a fucking lie. I did a WHOIS on your domain name to see where it is hosted, and i ended up on an hosting company that charges $4 per month. Then the next day i revelead that you hidden your domain WHOIS informations so that nobody can see the scam.

    I don't even know why people keep worshipping Profane Existence because it is a big label.... It brings nothing new to the scene... You publish only well known rockstar bands. You aren't helping the scene, you are just helping the old heroes.... Profane Existence's notoriety could be used to help small bands to get known but all of your releases are only from famous crust bands. You only want to be as big as possible, you don't care about the new scene and the smaller bands.

    By the way $14.99 is a totally normal price for a t-shirt. Unlike you we don't have a shitload of money to invest, so each t-shirts are printed on-demand. That's why we get them at higher price than screenprinting in batch...

    We make only around $3 per t-shirt sold, so go fuck yourself with your rip-off accusations.

    By the way we are going to release compilations and we're going to sell them at around $6 each for over 20 tracks. That's a big difference with Profane Existence record store selling albums at a cost averaging $10 each, isn't it ??? And i'm not even talking about the fact that we pay our album at higher price than PE because we order smaller quantities. You are bigger than us and you can't even afford to sell albums at a reasonnable price.

    I repeat that absolutly NO PROFIT is made from anything on our shop. We even promised that if some day we make profit, we will donate money to anarchist organisations. When is the last time that Profane Existence ever helped the anarchist community ?

    And do you think i was paid for my hard work of coding and managing 7 websites ? This is a full time job, maybe you should go check out how much web programmers are paid.... But i never asked for any money, or ever pretended that i should have been paid.

    I don't give a shit about your records. I hate Profane Existence especially because of YOU, because you are a fucking idiot. I lost all respect i could ever have for you the day you started calling us fake anarchists, saying we were thieves, and teaching us lessons on anarchism. You can't even imagine how many peoples are disgusted of Profane Existence since they heard what you said, how you treated us, and how you only care about profits.

    I still have to understand why small labels without money can afford to allow free sharing of their music, and why the biggest crust label with the biggest ressources can't afford to do it.


    There is absolutly no competition, we are two different sides, two different mentalities and i could even say two very different scene. We don't want to bring any Profane Existence fanboys here. I'm pretty sure that Dan see it as a competition because Anarcho-Punk.net contributed to make Profane Existence loose their monopole over the anarcho-punk internet community, that's why he was very angry when our forum opened. He quickly understood that APN have a lot of potential and bring a lot of people together, also bringing up a new idea of free file sharing that really scared him...



    I also want to recall everyone that it's Profane Existence that started this "war". They asked for their records to be removed, we agreed but it took them weeks until they finally provided a list of the records to be removed (BTW they never asked ANY of the bands what they think of file sharing, they just took the decision for them). Then they have posted a topic trashing APN on their forum and kept calling us thieves and fake anarchists. Too bad this topic isn't accessible anymore because PE forums are closed.
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Dan you really need to learn to read, or maybe just get yourself a brain.... The shop is advertised everywhere as a "NON-PROFIT SHOP"
     
  11. dan00a

    dan00a Experienced Member Experienced member


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    I don't understand why all the fucking hate is goin on. So APN did something PE doesn't fucking agree with? Try solving it like an adult and not a whiny little fucking child Dan. Where the fuck is your sense of unity? Supposedly we're all united under the same banner, yet we're all willing to let something as simple as he said/she said divide us down the middle. Why can't we all just get along?
     
  12. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I said it seems that way...

    The fact that this particular thread exists ("Why is PE frowned open here") tells me that people think everyone here hates PE and all of the bands that work with PE
    PE bands are not on this site because dan asked us to remove the bands featured on his label. Things didn't go smoothly but continuing this conversation is pointless.
    Clearly dan doesn't see eye to eye with us on the downloading issue, but the only reason he would bother to come back is because certain people continue to bring up his name and label.
    There's no use in beating a dead cop

    why didn't this happen?
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Because it was a legitimate question from someone who either didn't know or pretended not to know, and when we do try to avoid this subject it makes it worse....we don't have anything to hide, if we are so horrible why are there so many musicians from PE bands registered here?

    That makes no sense if you look at what I wrote above...

    He doesn't see eye to eye with us on many issues, not just downloading. Maybe you feel differently...
     
  14. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    This?

    Unite&Resist36 got his answer after Butcher and Ungovernable posted
    Alls I'm saying is that it seems we are shit-fighting just for the sake of shit-fighting
    nothing productive came after the question was answered
     
  15. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    that was a joke Surgery, thus the guy rolling on the floor laughing...give me a break. All you are saying is we're shit fighting for the sake of it? No, I wrote some things that I stand by, how are you going to self describe as an anarchist and be for copyright? Copyright is capitalism in practice and theory. What exactly do you suggest or propose to remedy the rift Surgery?
     
  16. dan00a

    dan00a Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Copyright isn't necessarily capitalism. I've written a bunch of songs, but I produce it myself and distribute it for free. As long as I get "credit" which is really just a mention in text form as having written it, listen as much as you want, give it away wherever you want, it's yours. You got the free EPs I hand out? Awesome! Post it here! (I don't actually have any, they all get given away)*


    *no I am not promting my own shit I am trying to make somewhat of a point. PE is done for non-profit, right? Some of your stuff can't be obtained without a donation, which means by definition, it has a price.
     
  17. JoeyV

    JoeyV Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Would be Nice if those shirts were a little cheap though :D
    Some really good shirts there.
     
  18. dan00a

    dan00a Experienced Member Experienced member


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    those are the first shirts I've found that I would actually pay that price for since I was like 12 (about 10 years strong now) because I know it goes to a good cause
     
  19. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    I think claiming credit for creative works isn't copyrights - not as long as you don't claim the commercial gains if the case comes up. There's lots of good stuff on the nets and the creators have every right to claim the fame for what they've done so everybody else can use it if they like - but claiming copyrights and threatening with legals because of possible profits?

    I think the whole thread is one of the most fairest on this favorite board, very reasonable - so where's the shitfights?
    Here in overseas we don't see much of PE, so I have no real opinion about the issue "of making punk a threat again", but I don't see the "threat" in expensive handmade gadgets and requests for the removal of DL-links - coz' thats what I call business.
     
  20. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    There is an extensive copyleft movement within the anarchist artists community and computer coding communities worldwide...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft :anarchism: :ecouteurs: :ecouteurs: :peace: <3

    Yes it absolutely is capitalism, look up copyright law and what exactly it affords you as the holder....pure capitalism...sorry :ecouteurs:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infoanarchism
     
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