Wikileaks

fucking RELAX will you? you accidentally sit on your balls or something today? That one comment really pissed you off? christ....
The 2 seconds it took to read that was really such a horrible waste of your time?

And for the record you didn't stop debating you kept going on.

just to clarify you know that wasn't aimed at you right? just trying to figure out what about that comment pissed you off so badly

 

completely agreed, they are making the choice to work for the death machine and have to face the consequences - even if they are neurotics like the nürnberg convicts or my lai-lieutenant calley pretending only to be a small wheel of the machine.
and they have the choice each time they pull the trigger or push the button - their victims don't have it.

assange is no saint - if he has moral dilemmas he should leave to prevent the whole project watering down to mere liberal entertainment. if he's targeted by disinformation and smear campaigns he should step back too, to keep wikileaks trustable reputation. the show he is a part of now achieves nothing except presumptions and speculations.

about the "Internationale Gesellschaft für Menschenrechte"
they are definitely "suspicious", at least far-right winged and some claim that they are a "grey zone" organisation with many members and activists connected to east european fascist movements like panjat ect. the executive committee included ex-uno general secretary Otto von Habsburg - who promoted the death penalty had to resign after his career as an officer of the nazi-wehrmacht became public or Gerhard Löwenthal - who was a notorious german anti-communist and producer of the infamous tv-"zdf-magazin" - the german left compared him and his public work with the nazi-stürmer in the 30's.
during the cold war the orientation of the igfm was strictly anticommunist and pro-anticommunist regimes like pinochet in chile, whoose political crimes were consequently ignored.
the igfm was boycotted by the protestant church, social democratic and green party around 1989 because of the critics, famous soviet dissident Andrej Sacharow refused the invitation to become a honor member and threatened with legal measures to prevent the igfm using his name for promotion.
the organisation still denies to have far rightwing and fascist connections and switched after 1990 from it's mainly anti-communist orientation to the defence of freedom of religion in islamic regions but still the regimes in cuba, china and north korea are targets too of their campaigns.
critics also claim that the igfm sometimes invented or dramatised the fate of victims to promote general campaigns or the organisation itself.

http://www.ishr.org/ - english homepage of the igfm
http://www.igfm.de/ - german homepage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... man_Rights - wikipedia english
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... chenrechte - german wikipedia, far more detailed
http://www.platzdasch.homepage.t-online ... d/igfm.pdf - german pdf blaming the igfm as "grey zone" organisation
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6330516/Die-s ... chenrechte - german site describing former members of the igfm

 

I don't think full names and backgrounds of people involved in the states machinery are an inevitable death sentence, the fuckers will just get new identities, some extra protection and go underground - and even if the war under the carpet gets total & transparent - it's still an "asymmetric" affair with unequal possibilities to carry out at least kind of "justice".
And no matter what's really going on around Assange, the story is just one little reason more to smash the states and abolish authority \m/

 

It's not just warlords and Soldiers commiting crimes that are in those documents, it's innocent workers, and people giving information about the Taliban planting bombs in marketplaces.

Did I say that? what I said was that a French source that has sources from an unknown, and seemingly religious Arabian site, isn't good enough evidence for me. But apparently this must mean i'm blindly allied to Assange?

It's not being watered down for liberal entertainment, it's making sure people don't get lynched for telling the US that an American city is going to get blown up.

 

i'm still a bit pissed about the hype around the embassy cables giving "characterisations" on the german government clowns to washington's - while the more important leaks about the cia-concepts to manipulate the public opinion towards the european war efford were completely ignored by the mass media.
i would guess that these cables entertainment value was much higher as the "boring" reality of agency manipulation stategies - everybody in the country knows what kind of ambicious incompetence and inconsistency rules in berlin - to release the cables changed nothing.

the informer-aspect is something to think about - you're right about this - because giving a tip may save the lives of non-combatants and none of us thought about this.

 

Well, of course that's annoying. But it isn't the fault of wikileaks, it's the fault of the media. Wikileaks doesn't publish a newspaper pertaining to the leaks, and it doesn't promote one item over the other. I suppose they should publish a newspaper, but it wouldn't work in practice, it would be destroyed pretty quickly. All wikileaks can do is publish the documents. They COULD only selectively publish more important documents and leave trivial ones, but the media wouldn't run those at all. Even if most of the cables published in the Mass media is trivial, it still gives wikileaks a name, and the public will look at the site out of interest, and find other more important documents.

 

TP for my bunghole?

 

I don't know if this is posted before on here, but here's an article on Bradly Manning, the guy who supposedly aquired the lot of the documents that was leaked as the "cable gate".
He is now being held in isolated custody by the us governement, despite the fact he's not been convicted of anything, much less bein actually tried for any crimes in a court.
He is being administered anti-depressants to sustain his brain from going completely insane..

here's an excerpt of an unformal interview on his views of why he did what he did

You can clearly tell he is a terrorist and a traitor to american patriotism, where patriotism means shutting your eyes to common sense and not mentioning certain non-topics.
Much like in norway, where i'm from, its a commong fact norway is not involved in a war, the soldiers are merely subjected to acts of military actions.

Its not the outcome of the war they need, the most important state for the those in power is the mere existence of the war, which allows them to subjugate large portions of the population into obedience, playing the treason card. when it comes to courts and the judicial system, its not justice or protection they want, its revenge.

 

"WAR IS PEACE" - George Orwell in "1984"
As with all the other Nineteen Eighty-Four ministries, the Ministry of Peace is named the exact opposite of what it does, since the Ministry of Peace is in charge of maintaining a state of war. As one of the obvious phrases, the meaning of peace has been equalized with the meaning of war in the slogan of the party, which is "War is Peace".
As with the Ministry of Love the name is somewhat accurate just not in the normal sense of the word. The Ministry helps to keep the peace internally by venting the population's rage at an external foe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Peace

and our (german) "federal ministry of defence" is already calculating to transfer armoured howitzers, more troops and weapon improvements to afghanistan... and they still claim to leave 2012? what a fucking joke!

right, but thats how the leaks are received here - and i am not sure if all this publicity for "wikileaks/assange" isn't sabotaging the main aim: ripping away the fig leaves - even we discuss assange - and completely forgot about Bradly Manning!!!

 

"WAR IS PEACE" - George Orwell in "1984"
As with all the other Nineteen Eighty-Four ministries, the Ministry of Peace is named the exact opposite of what it does, since the Ministry of Peace is in charge of maintaining a state of war. As one of the obvious phrases, the meaning of peace has been equalized with the meaning of war in the slogan of the party, which is "War is Peace".
As with the Ministry of Love the name is somewhat accurate just not in the normal sense of the word. The Ministry helps to keep the peace internally by venting the population's rage at an external foe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Peace

and our (german) "federal ministry of defence" is already calculating to transfer armoured howitzers, more troops and weapon improvements to afghanistan... and they still claim to leave 2012? fucking joke!

right, but thats how the leaks are received here - and i am not sure if all this publicity for "wikileaks/assange" isn't sabotaging the main aim: ripping away the fig leaves - but even we discuss assange - and completely forgot about Bradly Manning!!!

 

actually, i just made a post about him, but the more the better
cheers mate

 

yup, and i posted twice without noticing it...sorry - and cheers to you for reminding us!

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... df0cd1.6e1

Looks like you were wrong, Ungovernable, old buddy old pal.

Sorry

 

I'm glad we were wrong, cheers to Julian, but what gets me is you want to rub it in someone's face like a little kid..by the way you were also wrong about them not publishing because they wanted to protect the 'innocents' but of course you forgot to mention that part...

 

and at least a bit of good news too:

The United Nations is investigating a complaint on behalf of Bradley Manning that he is being mistreated while held since May in US Marine Corps custody pending trial. The army private is charged with the unauthorised use and disclosure of classified information, material related to the WikiLeaks, and faces a court martial sometime in 2011.
The office of Manfred Nowak, special rapporteur on torture based in Geneva, received the complaint from a Manning supporter; his office confirmed that it was being looked into. Manning’s supporters say that he is in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day; this could be construed as a form of torture. This month visitors reported that his mental and physical health was deteriorating.
The Pentagon denies the former intelligence analyst is mistreated, saying he is treated the same as other prisoners at Quantico, Virginia, is able to exercise, and has access to newspapers and visitors.
He was charged in July with leaking classified material including video posted by WikiLeaks of a 2007 US attack in Baghdad by a Apache helicopter that killed a Reuters news photographer and his driver. He is also suspected of leaking other material to the website, which is posting more than 250,000 secret state department cables. Manning has not commented on whether he is the source.
In an interview with MSNBC, Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, described Manning as a political prisoner and called on human rights organisations to investigate.
Nowak, an Austrian rights lawyer, has been involved in cases related to the Balkans, Guantánamo Bay, Iraq and China.

http://www.support-julian-assange.com/
http://politifi.com/news/UN-looking-int ... 23953.html

 

Well considering this is the second topic that guy has acted like a total jerk, and the fact that I said multiple times that his sources were just plain bad...

For the record, I did not disbelieve that Assange did this solely on the fact that I wanted to, but I could find very little actual information related to him doing what he was accused of. It is my personal opinion that certain begrudged ex-employees were trying to discredit the man. At the same time that they were setting up their own group too.

I did? I'm sure Assange has said many times that the team removes names of innocent parties in order to protect their identities. If I was wrong, then Assange SHOULD do that.

 

Thought of today:

MEN!

 

It's possible that they simply had not read all the files, or wanted to release the files on Israel at once.

If that's true, then he has reneged on the deal and Israel would crush him. Which has not happened.

Sure, but that reaon could simply be that all the files on Israel have been read, not that Assange had taken money. And if he had taken money, then why was he unable to pay for his own bail?

A serious journal that has been caught with false information before. Even ignoring that, I tried to follow up the sources they gave, and got nothing. Unless my French is abysmal and I misread everything.

You need more proof than sources that lwead to knowhere and can't be verified.

You can't source something that never happened.

Look, the onus isn't on me or anyone else to prove that something didn't happen, it's on you, the accuser.

Names of war criminals get published if that is what the cable is pertaining to. Like Sudan's president stealing $9 Billlion.