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NSBM

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by discrustdoom, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. JackNegativity

    JackNegativity Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Obviously, I've never sat down with the guy and talked to him. But I have seen him wearing a Bound For Glory (WP metal) shirt on a video and I've seen pics of him wearing Resistance Records shit. I can't imagine someone who's not a racist openly wearing that shit. If he's not a full-on nazi, he's at the very least a supporter which still makes him a fucktard in my book.

    My only answer to the question of why he'd play with hispanic people is: MONEY.
     
  2. Rabbit

    Rabbit Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ok, first off, Blackened Crust is some of the worst punk or metal music I've ever heard. It's based on the most watered down, melodic versions of black metal possible, and I have yet to hear a single group that I like. Cascadian BM isn't terrible, but it tends to be very atmospheric/melodic. Wolves in the Throne Room is pretty good, but aside from them its very meh.
    IMO, combining black metal with punk is pretty dumb, since black metal has a very heavy punk influence to begin with. (look up Bathory's influences if you don't believe me)

    Varg is in fact crazy. No shit. To the rest of that statement:
    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
    NSBM is a small minority in black metal. While its true that as with some skinhead music, you need to be aware of what you're listening to, I can't name more than 3 NSBM bands off the top of my head. "Probably half" is completely wrong. Black metal is a solid 90% apolitical.
    Again, this shows an ignorance as to what black metal is really about. The only "ideology" that is authentic to black metal is a general sense of misanthropy and the same underground values from punk. That's it. As to "There need to be a ton of left wing Black Metal bands," why the hell does everything have to be political? I agree that NSBM is something that needs to die, but I also have a problem with this crusty notion that all the music you listen to has to be super political. Hijacking black metal for any political means is pretty stupid, its supposed to be anti-Christian and pissed off, that's all.

    As far as the actual issue in question, I don't think its acceptable to be anti-fascist and listen to NSBM or any other music that is expressly fascist in its message. I think it's a different issue as to whether you can listen to or support apolitical music made by douchebags (i.e. Burzum). If you're willing to say that you can't listen to anything made by anyone who you don't agree with 100%, you're gonna have a hell of a lot of research to do finding out who is and who isn't ok. And what do you do in the case of Mayhem, where Varg, the bassist was/is a racist asshole, but the rest of the band did not share his sentiments or allow him to express them through the band's music.
     
  3. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    @Jack all very valid reasons, and I'm not a fan, but I just like to see or know about some kind of proof before condemning a person to the status of enemy.
     
  4. JackNegativity

    JackNegativity Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Regarding "blackened crust" etc.:

    I agree Black Metal was originally mainly misanthropic and anti-christian.

    That being said--

    If someone is into crust AND black metal, they want to play music they like--what's the big deal? I think the argument crusties thinking everything has to be political goes both ways. Black Metal doesn't have to always be non political. Are people with left-wing political views not allowed to like/play Black Metal?

    Punk and Metal are constantly evolving. Almost every form of punk and metal is influenced by or combined with something else. If it's not your thing, disregard it. Nobody can make you listen to something you don't want to.
     
  5. DirtyRottenThrashPunk

    DirtyRottenThrashPunk Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah, but just because a band isn't specifically in the NSBM scene doesn't mean they don't have some fucked up prejudices. I've seen (well read) plenty of horrible shit come from the mouths of Black-Metallers who had nothing to do with the NSBM scene. And as for the idealogy...obviously it doesn't apply to all BM, but the Satanist crap just seems kinda pointless to me. The misanthropy...I've got nothing against, as long as they don't talk about harming others.
     
  6. Rabbit

    Rabbit Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You realize that there are "punks" you have fucked up prejudices too, right? The existence of Nazi "punks" or even just racist or sexist or homophobic etc. punks doesn't invalidate all punks, just like these unspecified "black metallers" don't invalidate the fact that black metal is not inherently discriminatory.
    The Satanist crap isn't actual Satanism, at least not in a serious, religious way. Except for a few nutjobs, its a means of resistance to Christianity, sort of like Leftover Crack/Choking Victim's quasi-Satanist crap.
    I'm not sure what your point with not talking about harming others is, as there is a difference between violent imagery (i.e. a lot of Death metal type slasher movie stuff) and advocating violence against people (i.e. Nazism). Violent imagery is very common in punk, grindcore (especially goregrind), death metal, black metal, thrash metal and a million other subgenres.

    @Jack
    My problem with blackened crust is mostly that it's black metal influences are almost non existent, so I don't see it as an authentic representation of black metal, just an evolution of crust.
    Also, I have no problem with black metal bands who happen to be political (in a way that I support). I mentioned Wolves in the Throne Room before, they're quite political, mostly in terms of environmentalism. What I said about making everything political was about just that- I dislike music that HAS to be political. It's not that people with left-wing political views aren't welcome, it's that I'd rather have a music scene where you are free to be political or apolitical as you see fit than one in which you have to have all the right views to be accepted
     
  7. DirtyRottenThrashPunk

    DirtyRottenThrashPunk Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Uhm yeah I wasn't trying to invalidate Black metal as a whole, musically I love Black metal, fascist/prejudiced attitudes just seem to be more common in Black metal than any other music scene, which is unfortunate. And yeah, of course I know most BM isn't serious, I'm just not a fan of the whole Satanic thing (I like the way CV/LoC/etc do it better because they actually have more lyrics pertaining to other things, so they aren't totally focused on it, unlike a number of Black metal bands). And of course I'm aware of the whole Nazi-punk/RAC/etc scene, and that's shitty too. I'm definitely not speaking out against BM here, man, I love me some BM, has great vibes most other music doesn't have.

    Also, you think Blackened Crust isn't Blackened enough, eh?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMjfQ7z660

    There's some pretty legitimately Blackened Crust \m/
     
  8. JackNegativity

    JackNegativity Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    @Rabbit

    Cool. I guess I read it wrong and jumped to the wrong conclusion. My bad.

    Also, totally agree with the comparison to nazi "punks". How the fuck do these dudes even exist? Baffles me.
     
  9. Rabbit

    Rabbit Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Invalidating it or not, you were characterizing its fans in an unfair way, that is what I objected to.

    Martyrdöd is way better "blackened crust." Iskra is amazingly mediocre in my book. It's like a crust band heard half of Transylvanian Hunger and decided to try and steal a couple of riffs.
    If what you want is blackened crust, I can't help you, since I dislike most crust I hear. But black metal with some punk, I can do. Here are 2 black metal bands covering punk songs:

    Carpathian Forest- Discharge cover
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMxdfRTWgv8

    Darkthrone- Testors cover
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELcYSnNCKqg
     
  10. KAAOS-82

    KAAOS-82 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Again, how does personal politics of an artist who for all intensive purposes maybe mentally unstable legitimize a boycott?
    Perhaps if the music was expressing oppressive attitudes you'd have cause for concern but in the case of Burzum it does not. He didn't even express white supremacist sympathies until he was incarcerated. He was a fucking amazing artist in his first two releases. And as Rabbit brought up, NSBM is and incredibly small scene, to tarnish all black metal with the same brush is just silly. I also love how everyone ignores that Skrewdriver were initially a 77 punk band who were devoid of politics on there first couple of releases. I noticed someone mentioned Crisis in another thread (a highly political anti fascist punk band in 77) the Singer went on to join the National Front for some bizarre reason and went on to regret it. It sounds to me that some people think listening to these right leaning artists will somehow brainwash you... your anarchists for fucks sake, approach such music with an open mind and get over it.
     
  11. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    I'm an Anarchist for fuck's sake and I will approach said music with fire in my heart and a weapon in my hand.
     
  12. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i'll keep my burzum discog thanx.
    you guys can have crass.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    You can rub Burzum and Crass on your chest.... :lmao:
     
  14. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    but you can only eat Burzyums!
    now with 3 times more "burnin' church" marshmallow bites!
    the cereal that's good to eat, and healthy for your heart, assuming its both kvlt and frostbitten!
    a healthy part of a well-balanced breakfast!
     
  15. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Que chistoso....hee hee :lmao:
     
  16. DirtyRottenThrashPunk

    DirtyRottenThrashPunk Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Then you misunderstood me, or at least what I intended to say. I was talking about musicians from BM bands the whole time, not fans-I AM a fan of BM anyways (though not as much of one as I used to be). And every other FAN I've known has been a perfectly fine person anyways. It just seems like members of many of the bands hold some fucked up views, regardless of NSBM. And as for the stuff on tastes, well to each ones own, I think Iskra are pretty cool (and Martyrdod are awesome as well)...I don't get the Transilvanian HUnger connection, but but whatever, you hear what you hear.
     
  17. KAAOS-82

    KAAOS-82 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Here Here!
    Least Varg didnt sell out :D
     
  18. Napalm

    Napalm Active Member Forum Member


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    this might be blowing things out of proportions, but i think statements like what you present here is something the ministry of truth could have come up with. "if you happen to listen to antagonistic statements, be it by chance, or will, you are guilty of treason to the leader and the party"
    what you are saying is there is no discussing with nazis, because you will then be exposed to extreme right wing rethorics and henceforth believe and agree with them.
    if you lose the rhethorical part of an ideological fight, what have you got left but violence? what does unreasonable political violence get you? fascism? i don't know.
    If you BUY a record and\or send him mail saying how awesome his political views are, thats a supportive action. Listening is obtaining information. how you choose to process this information is up to you and your personal political conviction.

    now please don't take this as a personal offence, as that is not my intent. i'm just trying to provoke discussion, although this might prove to be a controversial topic, i've been contemplating it for some time, and i'd like to hear other peoples opinions as well

    peace
     
  19. persona-non-grata

    persona-non-grata Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    yeah what he said :D
     
  20. Bentheanarchist

    Bentheanarchist Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    I listen to black metal but not the nazi rascist kind. Is apolitical darkthrone nazis for having lyrics by varg? Im an anarchist, I listen to anarchist black metal!