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Position of "power"

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Pankucnik, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. Pankucnik

    Pankucnik Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 4, 2010
     
    Here is an interesting topic to think about. In current society, what would you do if you came into the position of power. For example if you were CEO of an important company, or say a governor of a state. Or any other "important" position in society you can think of.
     

  2. JesusCrust

    JesusCrust Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    I forget who said these beautiful words, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was Kurt Vonnegut:

    "As long as there is a lower class, I will be part of it."

    Power corrupts, and this is why most anarchists oppose socialism, which believe in all the same things, except the holding of political power.
     
  3. JesusCrust

    JesusCrust Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    Excuse me, The person that actually said this was Eugene Debs, a socialist party candidate for president from as early as 1912, who Vonegut referenced in his Semi-autobiography, "A Man Without a Country."

    The actual quote by Debs was:

    "As long as there is a lower class, I am in it.

    "As long as there is a criminal element, I am of it.

    "As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free."
     
  4. Pankucnik

    Pankucnik Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 4, 2010
     
    So if someone offered you a high position in hierarchy, because of your skills (for example, you are a skilled engineer or scientist, and they offer you to lead company or a part of it related to what you do), you would deny yourself the opportunity to help those exploited in it? I think this could be an interesting discussion...

    Would you betray the working class and anarchistic ideals if you accepted the position of a director, and then use it for a good cause? (improving the social rights of your employees, lowering your wage to their level, purging the corruption and making the company do its job efficient and well, not to mention other ideas coming to my mind as I write this)

    This is a purely theoretical discussion tho, the probability that an anarchist gets such a position is very low.
     
  5. Bakica

    Bakica Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    I think thats some kind of "real" communism, where you can chose to be a director in "free" country. Yes, you can use it for good cause, example Jello Biafra from Dead Kennedys tried, but its not really good idea. We should destroy power all together, and we wont let you become a director. Why ? Becouse we are scared that you will takeover our land, jobs, lifes, like these capitalists do, as simple as possible. Now, I know what you think - becoming boss in todays society, and offering all needs that working class need. Well, that sound cool, but it would be supporting hierarchy ? and if you support hierarchy, you failed anarchism right ? dunno

    also, most of directors become selfish bastards when they hear about money. And thats said. We wont give our anarhists to directors :D
     
  6. JesusCrust

    JesusCrust Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     

    It's like taking political office. Image it like a pyramid, your work place and politics. The rulers/ bosses being on top and the people/ workers on the bottom. Voting or any other decision making process where you replace someone higher up on the pyramid with someone else, is basically implementing new authority, no matter if they seem to be working for you or not. Anarchy does not wish to create equality by changing the people on the pyramid and having it work its way down, rather, we want to destroy the pyramid all together, from the bottom up.

    So to answer your question, no, I would not take the job, all power corrupts. I would much rather remain apart of the struggling working class, and work to unionize the workers.
     
  7. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Yr right, I'll be running the world soon enough, like a plush job as a minor functionary? :beers:
     
  8. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    There are lots of examples in history which already proved the incompatibility of a healthy attitude within a unhealthy system:
    The worst for the anarchist was 1938, when the CNT joined the republican government and agreed to suspend the revolution & collectivism in favor of "whinning the war" against the fascists first.
    Another, more recent: The role of the gurmun green party in the last 20 years - ending up with the green party federal foreign minister and former "pacifist" joschka fischer declaring gurmoney's entry in the Kosovo-war on the side of NATO 1998.
    I knew quite a lot former "leftwing" people who went in the trap and ended up as complete assholes, starting with the romantic idea to change the system from "within" - now completle eaten up by factual constraints and constantly self-defending their completely contradictory positions.
    So with those real life experiences: NO THANKS!
     
  9. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    I wanna join this party too, any details?
     
  10. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    an offer of complete subservience to my revolutionary leadership is a pre-requisite.
    Prowess at sexual services highly valued.
    work some weekends.
    Award wages, potential for promotion and/or purged.
     
  11. Pankucnik

    Pankucnik Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 4, 2010
     
    Hey, no conspiring about world domination in my thread! Not without me getting my share of power!

    Back on topic, it is good that you are careful about power. Many people did start of as fighters for greater good, and ended up as hypocrites. But I don't think that the power corrupts. I believe it is more of a personal thing if you become corrupt or not. The problem with power is that good and modest people will not try to seize it, while greedy bastards will, and that is exactly why most of the politicians and executives are very bad people. But I do know some people who had minor positions of power, and did some very good deeds. One man I know for example (I will try to hide the details that could identify him), is directly responsible for improving the standards of a small region (about few villages). He was appointed as executive in his own field of expertise (connected to tourism), he had a vision, and through hard work of himself as well as his employees, he made a small paradise. The village is now popular touristic destination, people have jobs, and are not leaving for big cities (very rare thing today). At the same time, he made sure that the nature is protected, and I never heard any of his workers complain about him, and most of them treat him with respect, or even like a friend (and vice-versa). And he is not sitting idle now that all that is accomplished. Every time I go to that location, something new is done. I believe it falls under professional authority that anarchy is not opposed to (like the authority of the doctor when illness is in question). He simply is a good director and is doing what he can. And that was my question. If you got into situation to be an authority based on you actual skill, would you use it to "help the world", or would you abandon the opportunity worried about your ideals.
     
  12. Caps

    Caps Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 3, 2010
     
    I think if you get into a significant position of power and try to do something significant, you won't be there for long. For example, if you got to be one of the heads of KFC and tried to improve chicken welfare at the cost of profits, you would be sacked or sidelined before you'd done a single thing constructive.

    However, as I'm a teacher of Religion in a Catholic school, I do know what you mean by having influence. Since being there, many students have become a lot more tolerant of atheists, some have questioned their faith and the few atheist students have felt much more comfortable speaking in class. I also organised a series of lessons on animal rights and have introduced the idea of veganism to students who would never have heard the term. I have also taught lessons on 'facts that should change the world', looking at things like military expenditure, captial punishment, war etc etc. None of the lessons I taught were 'preachy' but these are topics that would not have been touched in the school if it wasn't for me. Now, if there was a way to just teach straight up anarchy in a mainstream school... :S
     
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