re-mastered "The feeding of the 5,000" out now

someone post it on anarcho-punk...

 

what a fucking joke. i love crass dearly, but what a fucking joke.

 

Its really not that hard finding the originals on vinyl so unless your a completest collector i see no reason why people should bother purchasing them.

 

I have searched all the record stores in my area and have to yet too find any Crass on vinyl. Believe me, I would love to have Crass in my vinyl collection =P.

 

Hi folks,

I hope you don't mind me poking my nose in, but I've just been reading this thread & I think some of the above could do with a little counter-balance...

I'm not sure where any of the posters here live or how they make a living, but if I may take you back to the late 70s in the UK, what Crass did was sell their own records very cheaply. As they stated at the time, this was because they lived very cheaply (in what some might call privelege and all can call Dial House) and they wanted to share the profits gained from living cheaply by making the records cheap. It was also great marketing, whether that was the intention or not.

First point: "Crass never made any money when it was alive"...

Sorry but that's nonsense - Crass made a lot of money from their record sales - they then ploughed it into the Crass Records business, which (in my opinion) was the start of the rot.

2) "and when they made money they gave it to charity."

Gigs, yes, you're right. Bu I think you're in danger of turning human beings into Jesus-substitutes here. The humans who made up Crass also had to eat / pay petrol to get to gigs / buy their tobacco etc They lived in a privileged situation (Dial House) that, incidentally, couldn't be replicated in the UK in the time they were a band and they shared the benefits of that. It wasn't possible to replicate that then and nor is it now - seeing as most of Crass no longer share that privilege, it's a tad harsh to expect them to continue to paste 'pay no more than' - remember, that was always a (noble, but still) bourgouise luxury.

3) "Crass should have stood dead instead of turning it into a money-making-machine."

Again, I'd say that's a bit harsh, but more importantly , if Crass had stood dead (as you wish in your post) , they would be feeding you with unobtainable myths, which in the end could only harm you.

I think what worries me here is the implication that artists shouldn't be allowed to make a living from their art - that to do so somehow implies "sell out" (and anyone who uses that phrase should be forced to declare their own method of surviving, and for how long, in capital letters).

Would you really have forced Van Gogh into collecting litter instead of painting? Warhol into a call center instead of prancing around the Factory?

I hope I don't come across as confrontational, I just wanted to paint some of the colour background into what I thought was a pretty black and white opinion of the situation.

Penny & Gee still enjoy the privilege of living at (the now owned) Dial House - everyone else (who was) in Crass has to fend for themselves. They don't live in some parallel universe that pays their rent or gets constant benefit gig offers.

If you really want a world without full-time artists - if all art must be reduced in importance to have to be done in peoples' spare time, if art is to be reduced to that level of importance - I'll make no subscription to your paradise....

 

PS If any of you really care about life beyond music, please visit: http://www.justiceforgarycritchley.org/

You wanna change the world? Here's your chance to make a start

 

Must admit I did a costing on CD production and it is low, providing you already have the gear and don't have to invest in computer and printer.
100 cds - $20, $20 printer cartridge where you get 100 CDs printed and 200 covers, jewel case 10 for $2, card stock $1.60 and you get 10 out of it. So to make a CD it's 20 cents for CD, 16 cents for card, 20 cents for case, 66 cents for CD and cover to be printed (provided black and white production). A total of $1.22 excluding energy to run computer to duplicate CD from digital file and print discs/covers.

Cost to record a CD these days has also drastically reduced. I have a guitar $200, recording/mixing software with many plug-ins free (including drums, effects, bass, synthesizers ets), recording interface $129, computer to run everything $271. Total cost of a full studio - $600, the initial cost is high but the more tracks that are recorded, the cheaper it becomes. If I sold my CD for AUS $5 then break even revenue (if only 1 album produced) is $600 divided by 1 - (cost per unit/sell price per unit) breakeven revenue is thus 600 / (1 - (1.22/5)) which is $793, over simplified yes because I haven't included energy overheads, my time to record, mix and produce etc. My break even units is fixed costs / unit contribution, which is 600 / (5-1.22) = 158 units. I would have to sell 158 CDs at $5 to cover all my costs, including studio set up, anything after that is profit.

Overheads of a record label such as EMI are of course much higher because, many studio hours + engineers + producers + music videos - cover design artists etc but from the above it can be seen that selling 100,000 units at $25 / unit (gold record status) is way over break even or even earning reasonable margin in a capitalist society and they are clearly profiteering.

 

Even if they were to make some kind of a living out of the music they create, at least create new music. If they wanted more money, at least create more music rather than just reissue old cd's.

 

Funny, when i had the pleasure of meeting G vaucher 10 years ago this was the last thing she told me

 

Agreed. That is a professional outfit that would have set up equipment already. Cost is about one third what I quoted (0.29E is about 45 cents) and that was a rough costing of what it would cost me (a non-professional) to do.

I of course was also quoting cost of a scratch album and not one that was being reissued, the costs have already been recouped/absorbed and as I said, they are clearly profiteering.

 

How utterly condescending of you to assume that people on here don't do more than listen to music, later when you dismount your high-horse you might want to re-think that statement....

 

Yes, you're right - I apologise for that presumption. I guess I just got a bit worked up about how worked up people get about something as (relatively) unimportant as a music scene. Gary is a friend of mine - the simple choice is to help or not. It certainly won't stop you fighting for the rights of other prisoners.

Regarding Crass, I thought there might be some decent conversation to be had here, but it would appear not - instead I've just been told, quite aggressively, how wrong I am... so I won't be bothering you again.

In defence of the Crass members though, I would like to point out that - ungovernable - you've misunderstood what I meant about Dial House - my point was that Crass lived a priveleged existence *when they were going*, not now. Now most of the band members have left Dial House and don't enjoy that privelege. My source for the original 'sharing' thing was Penny Rimbaud in a radio interview
with Capital Radio (London) around the time of Penis Envy.

Regarding this: "Sorry but it is stated multiple times in crass interviews and biographies that they never made profit for themselves out of crass. it's a fact."

The band paid themselves £500 a year each - a ridiculously small amount when spread out into 52 weeks of course. I'm not sure which biographies you're referring to as the only ones I'm aware of are written by Penny Rimbaud and me (under the name George Berger).

I didn't come here for an argument so I'll leave you to it. I think we're coming from very different tangents. I wish you all the best in your endeavours & more power to your elbow in your efforts to make the world a better place.

 

i wonder how they deal with the "pay no more than..." prints from the original covers on the reissues, i searched a bit around but it looks like the new edition isn't sold in germany.

i am reading gerards/george bergers "the story of Crass" translated to german - i found it in the university library.
it's true, he wrote about the 500 pound per year and it is something to remember- but this buisness thing now... right: it leaves a bad feeling.

 

I wasnt going to lower myself and reply to this but all of you are bitching about Crass (mainly Ungovernable ), yet few if any of you (1 person from france) ever saw Crass or lived in the UK during Crass heyday and feel you have a right to slag Crass off because they destroyed your precious memories of one of the best punk bands of all time. I also bet that none of you are old enough to have seen them. I saw Crass on many occaisions and although i never visited Dial House, i know i still can if i want to to have a chat with Penny or Gee. Thats the way it was and is - open house policy - how many of you so called anarchists have an open house policy where you live - if you turned up to Dial House you can have a chat, make tea, cook dinner, stay the night and all from the kindness shown by Penny and Gee.

You slag off the remasters, yet how many of you have a copy?? I have and its a superb piece of work and well worth every penny of the 12 quid i payed for it - yes i paid for it and why shouldnt i.
33 tracks totally remastered, a massive booket, a miniture version of the original sleeve and nicely packaged too - not just to make it re-sellable - this is justified - a superb piece of work. If this remaster had been released back in the day it would have made all other punk albums irrelevant - its that good, not stopped playing it since i got it and feeding isnt one of my fave crass albums either (Stations and Penis envy are).
And to all of you who bought the original CD when it was reissued - bet you didnt know that was remastered too did ya - yet you still went out and bought it.
And stop bitching about the cost of Cd,s too - how mant of you on minimum wage?? Oh you work do you?? How very anarchist of you. Do any of you know the amount of CDs online you need to sell just to make minimum wage?? Heres a link with the breakdown - and its in dollars too http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2 ... rn-online/
So as you can see, just to make minimum wage every month you would need to sell 1161 retail albums per month at high value return just to make that minimum wage. You would still have to sell over 143 per month of a self pressed album to make the same.
Most of the cash from the sale of this goes to make the next one (same as always with Crass) and part goes to Southern Studios to keep it alive. And don't bitch about Southern either - NO SOUTHERN - NO CRASS RECORDS or many other bands records for that matter.
Someone said on here that none of Crass have gone out and played the rounds with a band since Crass - I beg to differ - Steve sung for Conflict for a while as well as Stafford Mercenaries and Shwarzaneggar and is touring with his band at the moment doing Crass songs as well as his own, which he has the perfect right to do. Penny has written books, Gee has been producing Art, they have both been performing plays under the Crass banner when they want to but you wouldnt know this coz youve not done your research

Next bit - How come they dont sell their albums as cheaply as they used to - coz its nearly 30 years later dumbass.

I used an online calculator to find the difference in worth of £2 (pay no more than on feeding) in 1979 to how much £2 would be now and here are the results
£7.54 using the retail price index
£7.47 using the GDP deflator
£12.00 using the average earnings
£12.80 using the per capita GDP
£14.00 using the share of GDP

As you can see a normal vinyl release done properly which ALL of Crass records originally were - (bet you didnt moan about that at the time bet you didnt say why dont they just release it on tape its cheaper - vinyl isnt very anarchist is it - no you didnt, you paid the money - so fuck off) would set you back a minimum of £7 now and as i said before this CD package is superb and well worth the £12 quid i paid for it which as you can see is average earnings based on 2 quid from 1979 - so shut the fuck up and realise that pay no more than 2 quid then is roughly equivalent to pay no more than 12 quid now which is what the album is selling for . But then Penny etc have paid out money for the studio time to remaster these which you seem to have forgotten about and the cost of getting them pressed and the covers done all of which costs as does some distribution (and as Alison pointed out it cost £6 to make each one). Dont tell me it doesnt coz i know it does - even if you send them off yourself you still have to buy all the packaging first and the postage and get a bus into town every day to post em - soon mounts up dont it - but then you will walk coz taking a bus isnt very narchist is it - giving money to a corporation for giving you a ride - get a fucking bike.

So stop whining like a bitch and spend 12 quid on this - and no im not uploading it - you dont desrerve it

so selling it for 2 quid is really stupid in this day and age - like most of your arguement seem to be - you dont live here, im assuming you never saw Crass or were involved in anything that went on in England in the early 80's and you seem to use anarchism as a way to vent your anger at people who have something reasonable to say - you already fucked off hte bloke who helped write the Crass book - do you know more than him - bet ya dont - bet your one of those anarchist peace punks who knows shit and just spouts rhetoric whenever theyre losing an arguement

Anarchist Peace Punk - What a Fucking joke.

And dont bother with one of your smart assed and ill informed replies coz you use the internet mate - corporate bollox and not very anarchist is it - go and produce a fanzine and hawk it round every concievable gig just to get your message ascross - bet you aint done that either - Crass did - i have - and this was before you could spout bollox to whoever has an opinion on the interent - there was no internet or mobiles back in the 80's - yet still people were more informed than you are.
Real fucking idiots