Is punk more a subculture or social movement?

I disagree. I'm not an "anarcho punk," I'm a punk who happens to be an anarchist. I think punk is not a vehicle for social revolution as its a subculture unto itself. Anarcho punk is too loose of a term to describe ones beliefs as many people associated with anarcho punk didn't believe in anarchism at all: Apostles, Rudimentary Peni etc. To claim anarcho punk is part of a revolutionary movement is pure tosh. Squatting, making stencils and throwing Molotov cocktails at cop vans isn't anarchism.

Show me one punk who were an "anarchist" before they listened to punk music and I'll give you my record collection

 

To the original topic:
I would say that punk is a subculture that helps push and support different social movements.
Lets say theres a "social movement" against racism somwhere.
There will be punks in this social movement, but also people from other "subcultures" as well.

And to the sub-topic: I most definately got into anarchism AFTER I started listening to punk music. I say music comes first and then you tend to look for bands in that genre that have similar views as your own. Not always but most times.
If there's anarcho-country I sure as hell won't be listening just because its about anarchy haha.

 

i was a anarchist before i ever listened tp anarcho punk music

 

.... sure ya were mate

 

but ididnt start understanding true anarchy untill i started listening to anarcho-punk.....actually i cant even consider myself close to punk to tell the truth

 

Did you come here to troll the shit out of stupid assholes, like me? Mostly I come here for amusement. I consider myself a punk, however unlike most punks, I'm not an elitist asshole about things that don't matter. I hate how it seems that punk nowadays consists of apathetic assholes who care more about drinking beer rather than caring about shit like civil rights, corporatism, and pollution. I also hate how elitist punks are about music. Saying, "Oh that bands a sellout," or "If you listen to that band, you're a poser."

I say, if you like a band, listen to them. If you like this kind of music, listen to it. If you want to have consensual sex with an adult, fucking do it. If you want to dress up nice, or if you want to wear rags, do it. Isn't punk about doing what you will and not giving a shit about what other people think? Apparently not anymore....

 

Take yr beer, and doh-si-doh, the rotten state has got to go!

YEEEEHAW!

 

why can't it be both? does it really need to be labeled and nitpicked?

 

unfortunately punk is still a mass-culture and not really an socialmovement or subculture.
then again it is a vehicle for pissed off, out of place kids (like myself) too find a place they feel like they fit in and through that come to understand that the world is a fucked up place. and that you can change it, and that it must be changed, and become anarchists. so why i said unfortunately punk is still a mass-culture, where i life mohawks are trendy spiked arm bands and belts are for sale in fashion stores and you can bye pre-fab t-shirts with sparkly punky print.

ok wheat thix what the fuck are you talking about?????? elitist is what way about what things that dont matter.and johnny rotten well i ungovernable said it already.

 

I think all punks were somewhat anarchists before punk, that's why they like punk. Yet, now we face the exploitation of punk. Lady gaga, Blink 182, Hot Topic, "alternative" rock... the list of traitors goes on. They use our angst to sell us cute products that appeal to our liking. Yet, these things still get grouped in with punk rock, even though they don't hold true to the original spirit and morals of punk rock. Selling fucking little accessories sporting a circle A is not anarchist in itself, yet, it makes people think. Try to remember the bands that first got you into punk, whether they were commercial sellouts or not. They embodied the feelings of angst that we all share, in some way. So I could call these money-making punk bands traitors, or possibly main stream liberators.
In the end, punks just strive to be themselves and do whatever the fuck they want. So if a band considers themselves to be punk, they are most likely for the social movement. If the so-called social movement is in the business of opening people's minds to new and strange possibilities, then maybe we should focus on that being the main objective.

Also...

Fighting the real fight? Funny, it seems like the only fights you ever pick are to glorify your own ego. Fuck you and your bullshit propaganda. You may be an anarchist, but you're also a fake bastard who obviously aspires to be more of a dictator than a liberator.

It's pretty clear was he was trying to say. He wasn't saying that being Johnny Rotten is a bad thing, cuz who really fuckin thinks that? Leave Johnny out of this because its pretty obvious that punk culture is and has always been alot about doing drugs, but now there's so much focus on it that it's sickening. I agree that being drunk all the time, getting as drunk as you fucking can, and sniffing random powder you found and the bus stop, is endorsed by multiple punk rock bands. Can't you admit that doing those things is distracting from the political side of things? Maybe just a little? It's not a bad point that he made at all.

 

I know multiple anarchist's who like Hip Hop, Dup-Step and Reggae...

 

I was anarchist before I listened to punk, so send me your record collection, thanks. On OP though, neither, punk is just a state of mind.

 

OFF-TOPIC:

KAAOS-82, I want that record collection.

And, by the way, how did you even find sense on what you wrote? There's a lot of hip-hop, reggae or anthems etc. which express anarchist beliefs. I mean, do you really think that the Spanish Revolutionaries in 1936 or the Makhnovtchinas were "hxc f'n punx"? What a sight that'd be

ON-TOPIC:

Like ungov said earlier, in the first post, punk's a subculture. Anarchism is the social movement, anarcho-punk is just a way to spread the message.

And about drugs disctracting from political action, well, I must say that when I started smoking pot it opened a lot of doors, to me. I started dealing with the law (cops), started to know new and different people, started to go to squats, know squatters, know homeless people, homeless teens. All of that while not being a punk, btw, just when I was starting to get into anarchy. (before, growing up in a communist family, I thought I was one)

In my opinion, doing drugs isn't the problem, there's so much shit out there that, sometimes, people just need a time when they can relax, alienate from all the shit happening. I don't think that that disgraces anyone, unless they let it control their lifes, which would destroy most of their personality and social living, let alone their political action...