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Johnny Rotten is now making publicity for the capitalist industry !!

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by ungovernable, May 13, 2010.

  1. Shuei

    Shuei Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I like how all here is busy defining punk - yet the bands that actually defined the movement (read, movement, not first band to play the genre) didn't even define it the same way.
     
  2. Shuei

    Shuei Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Thank you for the statistics! they were useful
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Bill gates didn't invent the PC.

    And i use Linux ;)

    Anyway, the problem is not really the invention but more the company behind the invention and what they are doing of their success


    "NO FUTURE" wasn't about shocking the mass, they were denouncing the social condition for the youth and the absence of a future because they couldn't find a job.

    Any rich peoples piss me off, wether they are doing what they want or not...
     
  4. fcuk_the_police

    fcuk_the_police New Member New Member


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    i hate british butter
     
  5. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    wow!!! Ungovernable just defended the pistols in a political context... better see if any pig are flying helicopters again today... :lmao:
     
  6. Shuei

    Shuei Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It's a common misinterpretation of the term No Future. No Future is an ideal, it's a hope for no future. It's a rejection of the established society's ideal of a future - house and boring job and all that - and the ideal of being able to live in the presence, without worrying about the future, and only accomplish what you wish. Also, it's to free yourself of all ideas of norms and rules in the society - creating "no future" for yourself, by being an outcast with no place in society.
    No Future is an ideal, nothing negative.

    And about Rotten - He is an Anarchist. Sex Pistols was about shock and anarchy in the UK is just for shock, but it worked, it inspired thousands of bands and youth all over the world - some more political than others - but inspired to free them self of the ideals of the established society, and experience with new expressions and impressions.
    Yes, it was commercial, but it worked on more levels than earning money.
     
  7. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Your taste in music sucks, get over what cds Hot Topic sells and the patches rancid has on thier jackets and come back later, thanks.
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    well i'm "defending them" to prove that they are contradictory with their ideas. They pretended to fight against something that they became today


    No the common misinterpretation of the term No future is to think that the sex pistols wanted the youth to have No Future.

    No Future is a denounciation, there was a crisis in england and the youth had no jobs and no future. This is why they became rebellious, this is why they were pissed off against the system and became punks. I think you need to inform yourself about the beginning of the punk movement.

    WTF, johnny rotten is NOT a real anarchist, he is an anarchist wannabe.

    This is exactly what i was saying, back in the time they were critizing the established society and now they just became what they were fighting against, and they became part of this established society
     
  9. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You mean like "Feeding the 5000"?

    BTW, If you ever decide to say anything intelligent, make sure to let me know.
     
  10. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Just goes to show nobody's wrong all of the time.
     
  11. Shuei

    Shuei Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You need to inform yourself - Old-school first generation punk bands have explained the No Future concept like that (Fritz Fatal of Before, the members of No Knoxs and Lost Kids etc.), and apart from that we've seen the explaination of wanting no future in several other bands.

    The interpretation of no future as word for the crisis and the fear of a nuclear war is a retrospective misinterpretation. Can you show me some sources from some of the people who actually founded the term claiming otherwise?

    I would like to show you a great video of the members of No Knox and Lost Kids explaining how, in the early days of the punk movement, people who thought that "No Future" was saying "We have no future", and not an ideal for how to live, was looked upon as posers - unfortunately, the documentary is in Danish.

    You know nothing about how much i've read about the early punk movement.

    WTF, johnny rotten is NOT a real anarchist, he is an anarchist wannabe. [/quote]
    - Johnny Rotten claims to be an anarchist and is listed as an anarchist musician alongside Steve Ignorant and other well-known anarcho-punk musicians. Again i would like you to show me an article showing, that he doesn't know about anarchism? Yes, what Sex Pistols sang about was just chaos, but that can't mean that he is against authority and the way society works presently.

    This is exactly what i was saying, back in the time they were critizing the established society and now they just became what they were fighting against, and they became part of this established society[/quote]

    I agree that they have become part of the established society - but Johnny Rotten still provokes the mainstream that he is part of, which i think, would be wiser than to try to act like he was some underground act. He mocks the shallowness of modern music, he refuses all the award shit (like rock'n'roll hall of fame) and refuse to live up to the expectations put upon him (like participating in a butter commercial while "fans" expect him to be anti-commercial).
    From his position in life, what he does is still rebellious and anti-authoritarian, even though i admit that he is commercial too.

    -

    On a last note, Johnny Rotten has even claimed, that he did the butter commercials to earn money for the reformation of Public Image LTD in order to release the next album without a record label.
    I'm not saying he's not commercial and the most hardcore anarchist ever, but i don't see him as a complete sell-out, but as a person who is aware that he is mainstream and uses that as he wishes, while criticizing the modern music industry
     
  12. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Listed by whom? just because he claims to be an anarchist doesn't mean he is one. What has he done for the anarcho scene? And using capitalism to reform a capitalist band is capitalist bullshit in my eyes. I don't see how selling your soul to a butter company was needed to reform a band, what a pitiful excuse.
     
  13. Shuei

    Shuei Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    First of all, no one here denies that he is a commercial artist. He definitely is. That doesn't mean that he can't have opinions though

    To what he have done to the anarcho-scene - without the Sex Pistols, punk wouldn't have had the form it has today, and it might even just have died out like so many other subcultures.
    The Sex Pistols and other commercial bands spawned many other bands who became inspired by them all over Europe (worth mentioning: The Buzzcocks, The Fall, Joy Division, Asta Kask, Sods, Stiff Little Fingers etc.), all bands who claim that the Sex Pistols was what inspired their bands to start. Some of these bands are real anarchist, and apart from that, big parts of a scene who've spawned many hundreds of anarchists.
    Apart from that, the whole fashion of Punk etc. was coined partially by The Sex Pistols and Malcolm McLaren, like it or not.
     
  14. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    wtf? the sex pistols havent done anything to the anarcho punk scene, i remind you that crass started IN OPPOSITION OF the sex pistols, they were clearly critizing them in their lyrics...

    so the best thing that the sex pistols did is creating a movement in opposition with them, but even without the pistols i'm pretty sure the marriage between anarchism and music would have still happenned...
     
  15. Protspecd

    Protspecd Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I dislike the Sex Pistols but I do think they have their place in Punk. I am not saying anarcho-punk but just punk music in general. They have influenced a large number of bands and they were probably a gateway for many people that got into punk after listening to them. I would like to see the punk scene as a whole, if the Sex Pistols didn't even form at all. I am show there would be a very noticeable difference in the scene.
     
  16. Shuei

    Shuei Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yes? You say it yourself, Crass started in opposition of them, and the entire commercial punk scene (i'm a big fan of Crass, i am aware of that).
    But do you actually believe that the punk movement would have had the same amount of supporters and the same impact in history if not for a mainstream movement following the underground movement? Sex Pistols and the other commercial bands made punk big in a period and made punk known for a lot of people who wouldn't have heard of it otherwise - especially outside of great britain and america.

    The marriage between anarchism and music might have happened (we see a lot of great anarchist hip hop performers today for example), but it's undeniable that Sex Pistols and those bands have influenced the way the punk scene looks today - also the one that started in opposition to the mainstream punk scene. And i doubt that the scene would have been this big, or spread throughout as many countries if not for The Sex Pistols, The Clash and other commercial bands.
    Maybe the scene would have been better off without Sex Pistols, but they've definitely had their part in forming the scene that is today.
     
  17. Bananaman

    Bananaman Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Just to add this, the first commercial band to promote some anarchist ideas and have anrchist member and collaborators in the UK was Hawkwind... Now for some strange reason the anarchist message is often overlooked (I'm pretty sure that not all of the band members cared about the message or abarchism) and never really had a world wide influence like some later bands had...
     
  18. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I actually do NOT like crass, they always struck me as halfassed musicians attempting to sound somewhat like frank zappa and failing miserably, I was always way more partial to the band and album that got me into anarcho punk in the first place, Conflict.

    What you should do, is check out Civilised Society? if you wanna hear a really killer anarcho band.
    Oh wait, your a fucking nazi asshole.
    Die.
     
  19. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I don't like them that much either. Even for that brand of loud, stripped-down, bare-bones street punk, they're pretty hard to take for the most part. Worse than the fucking Casualties.
    Conflict are decent. I have some ideological differences. "Serenade is Dead" is a fucking great song, though.

    Good band. Kinda like Vice Squad or Lost Cherrees. I really dig punk bands with female vocalists.

    I seriously object to being called a 'nazi', it's completely uncalled for. There's no reason for that.
     
  20. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I think Vice Squad and Lost Cherrees are terrible, but whatever. Johnny never betrayed his ideals, he come from shit poor family and wanted a way out. Music gave him that opportunity, he used money from Sex Pistols to buy property and been trading property ever since. Don't recall him ever saying he was anything else. Crass, on the other hand, come from richer middle class family and bought property with the money they made from music, but I guess they are ok cos, you know, they trash other punk bands in their songs.
     
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