Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

favorite anarchistic philosopher

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by stinagen, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    No, because you pretend i don't have the right to use this word to DISCUSS it

    that's like if i was talking about the word "faggot" without using it as an insult and you would say i'm an homophobic.

    We can discuss the meaning of the words without being a sexist and using it as an insult.

    And yes, i have said i'm sorry as soon as someone told me it was sexist, now shut up i aint going to get on my knees for something i didnt know

    wtf ??? feminism is not anti-speciesm

    and yes you can frequently say "be a woman" in french, it just means stand up and be strong !!! i.e. if a woman have a problem to face and she's scared and doesn't have confiance in herself, saying "be a woman" is very appropriated and NOT sexist

    Then just shut up and stop teaching me lessons if you can't be FAIR, care about your own business.

    If i have to be a man and tell them myself, then they can be men too and tell me by themselves to be polite

    OMG YOU USED THE SEXIST WORD I AM SOOO OFFENDED !!!

    And no you are not generally speaking, you were personnally addressing to me and you told ME to go check out the points of unity, and blah blah

    You said that he was right to call me a fake anarchist because i act in a manner that anarchists shouldnt. He called me a fake anarchist not because i was insulting, but because i was against nazi freedom of speech. You are so confused.
    I insulted AFTER i was called a fake anarchists because of my positions on anti-fascism, so your argument is stupid

    Yep true, some of the fascist freedom of speech defender on this topic asked you if you had balls, and nobody made a big drama out of it...

    Anyway... swears are much easier and less complicated in french! Here we swear with religious words, not with sexual words.... Our swears are like "christ, tabernacle, hostie, calice, sacrement, etc"... at least the women can't feel offended about it :p

    Thanks a lot, finally someone who can show a bit of understanding !! I know this doesn't excuse me for insulting, but this explains how it got here.

    And for the sexist insults i admit i was wrong, but i really didn't know! You all know that french is my first language, and we don't learn insults in school ;)
     
  2. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    That’s completely false. Either you didn’t read what I said, or you somehow horribly misinterpreted it. I did not use those words to be insulting or to offend Ungovernable, at all. I said he was acting authoritarian because he was. Let’s just start with that so there won’t be any more of this ridiculousness;
    au•thor•i•tar•i•an
    adj.
    1. Characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom: an authoritarian regime.
    2. Of, relating to, or expecting unquestioning obedience.


    Ungovernable was proposing a blanket ban on the expression or dissemination of ideas, to be enforced with extreme prejudice. That all written material deemed ideologically unacceptable should be confiscated and destroyed, and that anyone expressing banned ideas should be imprisoned, beaten, or even executed. That is establishing a rule, restricting individual freedom, which demands absolute obedience. (Or else.) That is absolutely, unquestionably authoritarian. Now let’s look at the other two;
    fas•cism
    n.
    1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
    Sta•lin•ism
    n.
    the political, economic, and social principles and policies associated with Stalin; especially : the theory and practice of communism developed by Stalin from Marxism-Leninism and marked especially by rigid authoritarianism, widespread use of terror, and often emphasis on Russian nationalism

    So it’s very clear in what context I was using those words. I was not trying to disparage or provoke, and any assertion to the contrary is just flat-out wrong.

    What misunderstanding? Justify that statement.
     
  3. ozf

    ozf Member Forum Member


    13

    0

    0

    Jan 31, 2010
     
    I just had a crazy thought......


    what are people's favourite philosophers???
     
  4. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian Barbarian Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    719

    2

    0

    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Whats funny about this argument is the ones who were fighting for nazis to have the right to speak their mind, are now telling someone to stop using the words pussy and faggot.

    SHOVE YOUR FUCKING PC HYSTERIA UP YOUR ASS.

    Using those terms is apart of free speech. So to tell someone to shut up in using it is hypocritical of you (to the ones who defended nazis rights to speak).
     
  5. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    Very true. Oops :p
     
  6. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian Barbarian Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    719

    2

    0

    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Lets kiss... <3
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    wow only an idiot like you can refer to the dictionnary definition (not even wikipedia) of complex terms like fascism and authoritarian. You are an opportunist.

    So you insulted me and called me an authoritarian, end of the story.

    I should post the definition of NAZI HUGGER it matches perfectly to you, so i guess it's not an insult ;)

    So once again you are saying that all anarchists of the history are authoritarians....


    Extreme prejudice ? what the fuck, you are insane....

    LIES LIES LIES again...

    i never said that you are LYING. I said that HATE propaganda that is a threat to others freedom shouldnt be tolerated, not ". This concerns only fascism, and nazism, this kind of bullshit should never be tolerated INSIDE ANARCHIST COMMUNITIES. And anyway, like i said, the material would still be available through internet because anarchists doesnt censor internet

    I NEVER SAID THAT, I NEVER TALKED ABOUT IMPRISONNING PEOPLES OR EXECUTING THEM

    YOU ARE A LIAR AND A FASCIST

    PROVE ME WHEE I SAID THAT OR SHUT THE FUCK UP, LIAR FASCIST

    fuck you and your disinformation, LIAR

    wowwww this is RI-DI-CU-LOUS

    you base your argument of calling of a fascist on like 1% of the definition of fascism

    fascism is a regime, fascism is about a minority having the control over a majority.

    i said it many time in this topic and i will repeat it again, in big capital letters so a fucking retard like you might understand it easier:

    I BELIEVE IN DIRECT DEMOCRACY, THE ANARCHIST COMMUNITIES SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT TO CENSOR THE FASCISTS OR NOT. THIS IS NOT FASCISM THIS IS DIRECT DEMOCRACY, CALL IT THE DICTATORSHIP OF THE TOTALITY OF THE PEOPLES IF YOU WANT, BUT THATS NOT FASCISM, THATS NOT AUTHORITARISM, THATS NOT STALINISM. THIS IS AUTO MANAGEMENT, SELF ORGANIZATION, AND ANARCHISM.

    If you are against a collective decision decided by the totality of a community, then YOU ARE THE FASCIST YOU ARE THE STALINIST who oppose to the WILL OF THE PEOPLES, THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY.

    ahahahahahahahahaha

    so you think i'm a stalinist because i am supposedly authoritarian. well guess what dumbass ? there's a word called authoritarism to describe that, and authoritarism isn't synonymous of stalinism.

    You quote a referrence that says stalinism is marxism-leninism, this prove how ridiculous this description is.

    i never talked about widespread use of terror, i never talked about russian nationalism, i never talked about stalinism, never talked about marxism-leninism, etc... CALLING ME A STALINIST IS FUCKING STUPID

    I also add that accusating your ennemies of everything they are not IS CLEARLY A STALINIST TACTIC.... Staline always accused his opponents of being fascists to silence their ideas, AND YOU ARE DOING THE SAME.

    YOU are the fucking fascist, and you are a nazi hugger.

    +1

    [/quote][/quote]
    your anarchist society would be so cool.

    i already imagine the protests by christians with signs like "GOD HATE FAGS" in the gay communities, i already immagine the muslims talking about how women should be submissive and objects, i already imagine the nazis doing protests against ethnic minorities in afro-american communities

    Ahhhh wow freedom of speech is so cool, i'm sure everyone will be happy to live in this society !!!
     
  8. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    Well hopefully in an anarchist society the counter-protests would be so large that they would realize the futility of their shit ideals within one.
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    The counter protests of the KKK was always bigger than the number of KKK protesters but this never stopped them from spreading their hate since years and years...

    An anarchist society is supposed to be a society without hate and without description, a society where homosexuals are free to live the way they want and a society where ethnic minorities aren't victim of racism. Not a society that tolerate and defend the nazis who spread their hate and not a society where peoples can organize marchs against homosexuality in their own community

    I do not want to live in this society, and you will always have a lot of anti-fascists and a lot of anarchists fighting against you because you are defending something really stupid, trust me i am not alone, the majority of anarchists and antifascists would never tolerate that.
     
  10. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    Good luck ridding the world of hate when you can't even rid yourself of petty hate and animocity when logging onto a website.
     
  11. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    And you don't find it at all contradictory that you are defending a band with OBVIOUSLY homophobic lyrics in one thread and decrying the free speech of homophobes in the other? :)
    Oh, and if you don't answer this within an hour that I post it you are a "pussy" with "no balls" who needs to "be a man".
    - A biracial boy for the free speech of those who would gladly kill him and all those like him.
     
  12. Spider

    Spider Experienced Member Experienced member


    90

    1

    0

    Sep 3, 2009
     
    referring to ideas as fascist or authoritarian (adjectives) are not tantamount to directly calling somebody a fascist. Nor is drawing a parallel between the efects of leninism on the public perception of communism with the possible effects of widespread censorship and capital punishment for nazi ideas would have on the public perception of anarchy even remotely close to calling you a leninist.

    I am all for public protest of nazi organisations, for confronting all forms of hateful, fascist , sexist or whateverist behaviours and for fighting fascism and authoritarianism in ALL its forms.

    That is not mutually exclusive with EVERYBODY being aloud to think and speak freely without some kind of authority silencing them with imprisonment or death.

    Nobody called you a fascist, they just referred to your ideas as containing fascist characteristics. Nobody said you were an authoritarian, but that you were acting in an authoritarian manner or proposing authoritarian ideas. The fact that past anarchist organizations employed temporary censorship does not make that action any more or less authoritarian. Purely and simply by definition that is what it is. That is not saying that they were "fake anarchists" (quoting you, as you're the only person to use this term, though you keep referring to non existent uses of it towards you. ) nor that the majority of what they did was authoritarian in nature, but that the act of censorship is an authoritarian one. And one that in the context of it's use was probably reasoned to be necessary, if only temporary.

    PS the way your defending your sexism is pretty funny. It's like when somebody ges called out for saying fag and they're like "but i have lots of gay friends and they say it all the time"
    Again freedom of speech means you have the right to be sexist, but i have the right to call you out for it.
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    But NGNM85 lying and putting words in Ungovs mouth is ok by you right? If your going to attack the man in masse have the decency to point out the mistakes in everybodies posts on both sides of the argument... :|
     
  14. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    lol that's the only thing you got to say ??? what a shitty answer

    we don't have the same definition of "hate". i'm talking about prejudices and hate like racism, homophobia, discrimination, etc...

    If you think someone who insult peoples because he got insulted is on the same level as a racist nazi bastard and homophobic peoples, then you are definatly deserving to be called stupid.

    lol yeah right this is the most famous antifascist band, they are not homophobic. i don't even believe what this dude said.

    He posted a reply and didn't answer me, thats why i said he was scared to answer me. Not because it was 1 hour later.

    By the way, you and your friends are the ones who told Anokm she ain't got no balls. Not me ;) Dumbass.





    Siting back and doing nothing except saying "I DISAGREE" when confronted with hate and discrimination like nazism and fascism is not what i call FIGHTING. You might be protesting, but you are doing nothing else. That's not fighting, that's only showing your disagrement.


    Yes i was called a fascist/authoritarian many time, learn to read or shut up. Even in his last post he did.

    And even if he say that my ideas contain fascist/authoritarian characteristics it's still an useless, counter-productive, not objective and ridiculous insult.

    The difference you are making between acting like an authoritarian and being authoritarian is fucking stupid and useless, NGNM85's last post explains that he think the definition of "authoritarian" is "acting like an authoritarian" he even posted the dictionary definition to prove his point. LEARN TO READ.

    Well if you think that all of the past anarchist organizations and revolutions employed censorship are authoritarian maybe it's the time to wake up and realize you are wrong, because we are a majority against your ideas and YOUR IDEAS WERE NEVER APPLIED IN REAL LIFE. History proves that we ALWAYS need censorship in a revolution.

    I seriously don,t give a fuck if you think i'm a fascist or an authoritarian because i know that the whole history of anarchism was as authoritarian as me.

    Once again, learn to fucking read. I was called many time a fake anarchism (not ideologically anarchist if you prefer, thats how NGNM85 said it, he alwao said my ideas are incompatible with anarchist, etc). So since i think the same thing that ALL the examples of anarchist revolution i quoted, those revolutions are also authoritarian revolutions who are fake anarchists. COMMON SENSE.

    Wow you are never going to understand or what.

    I SPEAK FRENCH. THE MEANING OF WORDS DOESNT HAVE THE SAME DEFINITION HERE. So stop acting like an english fascist and please remember we are on an international forum, english language doesnt have the monopole of the meaning of words.

    I defy you to find ONE SINGLE FRENCH SPEAKING FEMINIST who consider that saying "make a man of yourself" is sexism. Good luck.

    I'm not defending sexism, are you retarded or what ??? I'm saying this specific sentence doesn't have a sexist meaning and it's a fact.

    Some feminists really act like fascists, and you are proving it once again.

    You sound like one of those fascist feminist who are fan of the scum manifesto.
     
  15. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    459

    0

    0

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    I never attributed anything to him he didn't say or strongly imply. That's not lying.
     
  16. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    642

    1

    3

    Oct 22, 2009
     
    Alright. But if your going to say something along the lines of "in an anarchist society tere should be no hate." your going to have to elaborate on your defintion of hate. And when I saw the lyrics of that band on this website I saw homophobia, sexism and anti-veganism. So if that guy was incorrectly posting those lyrics then I'm sorry. But I was just reacting to what I saw. An anti-fascist band who sings sexist, homophobic and anti-vegan lyrics, anti-fascist or not, is no bad of mine.
     
  17. Spider

    Spider Experienced Member Experienced member


    90

    1

    0

    Sep 3, 2009
     
    post evidence of lying and wordputting.

    Sorry but i read thru and couldn't find any. Don't have time to re-check 12 pages of the same shit. What were the lies and what were the words put in ungovs mouth. there was a lot of words put in mine and the mouths of others ie calling people fake anarchists, calling every example of anarchy in action fake fascist and authoritarian, calling ungov a fascist an authoritarian and a big poohead(hasn't been accused of yet but i'm sure it's inevitable the way this thread is going).

    All that i and a ew others are saying we are opposed to is the idea of extreme censorship, punishable by imprisonment or death, as we see that as a very fascist and authoritative action, which by definition it is. NGNM85 posted almost this exact thing in more or less those words and has since been attacked by ungov and some others for 12 pages for every "crime" in the anarchist book.

    After defending chomsky and enduring quite the drilling as well as the "proof" that "real anarchists" supported censorship of their opponents. This was the essence of the reply.

    NGNM "The right to express ideas freely without fear of persecution is a fundamental human right and a key litmus test of a democratic and open society. It is also the bedrock on which all other rights are predicated.

    Believing in freedom of speech means believing in it for ideas that you find objectionable. Nobody goes to prison for supporting the status quo.

    CRIMINALIZING SPEECH IS FASCIST AUTHORITARIAN AND TANTAMOUNT TO BURNING BOOKS(note no accusations,he was refferring to the action, not any individuals) , which is just another means of shutting down free speech. This is the death knell for individual rights. Therefore, Anarchists should oppose it.

    Second, Anarchists should oppose it out of hand because historically Anarchists have been the victims of such crusades. Like Thomas Paine, who was nearly executed once the new order was established and decided revolutionaries were no longer desirable.

    Lastly, criminalizing free speech is bad because it’s tactically unsound. It just doesn’t work that well. In fact, it can very easily backfire and make the target more sympathetic. You don’t defeat bad ideas by silencing them. You defeat them by holding them under a spotlight for all to see. Especially bad ideas like neo-Nazism or holocaust denial should not be threatening because they are so easily countered. I despise religion, but I don’t want to throw all religious people into internment camps. I want new rules of conversation, I want to have a public, critical dialogue, because I know their ideas can’t possibly hold up.

    Lastly, virtually every leap forward in human progress, every visionary has drastically challenged the fundamental beliefs of the day, in art, culture, science, etc. If we silence the Faurisson’s we’re likely to silence the Galileo’s as well. Dissent is healthy, and moreover it’s fundamental to Anarchism."

    To which the reply was

    UNGOV "

    NGNM"You do this repeatedly, I’m just going to jump on it here and get it over with. Chomsky did not defend Faurisson, holocaust denial, or anything of the sort, he defended freedom of speech."


    UNGOV "he defended the freedom of speech of faurisson. It was not a coincidence that he reacted on the faurisson affair by saying faurisson have the right to deny the holocaust and be a nazi asshole, etc... inform yourself"

    NGNM " Now, either you believe people have the right to free expression, which means the right to express ideas you find personally abhorrent, or you don’t believe in free speech."


    UNGOV"This is shitty a chomsky quotation, word for word.

    I don't care what he says on this issue, he's the ONLY ANARCHIST i know to defend freedom of speech for our ennemies

    Re-read my historical exemples, NONE OF THEM allowed freedom of speech for the ennemies of freedom of speech."

    NGNM " You do this repeatedly,"


    I do what repreatedly ???

    NGNM "I never said you had to like them, but putting someone in prison for speaking or writing their ideas is a whole different ball of wax."


    UNGOV "And during anarchist revolutions, what the fuck do you think that happens to our ennemies? Learn what happenned to the fascists in the anarchist spanish revolution, learn what happenned to the ennemies of the makhnovtchina, etc.... THEY WERE KILLED.(note condoning capital punishment)

    You don't make a revolution by defending your ennemies and their freedom of speech.

    NGNM "Lying is generally bad, but are you willing to criminalize it? Besides, you’d have to prove that HE KNEW(saying Faurisson thought it was true, not that it was) what he was saying is untrue, which you can’t, even though I happen to think he genuinely believes it. "


    UNGOV "WOW YOU ARE AN IDIOT, you are saying i CAN'T prove that he is lying by saying the gas chambers never existed ??? GOD DAMN INFORM YOURSELF there are pictures and movies ALL OVER THE FUCKING INTERNET of US soldiers liberating nazi concentration camps, there are proofs and evidences of the auschwitz massacres and other camps.... WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS SOOOO STUPID.

    And even if an anarchist believe in freedom of speech for everyone even the nazis, it's fucking stupid that the nazis can count on anarchists to defend them."

    why don't you go fight to liberate the nazi POW or other negationnist asshole if this is part of your fight ??

    NGNM "This is a whole different argument that really contradicts everything else you’re saying. Second, if people start getting locked up for holding unauthorized opinions, it’s likely any one of us would be next. Bear in mind the classic quote by Martin Niemoller;
    "THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
    THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
    THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
    THEN THEY CAME for me.. "


    UNGOV "WOW SO DUMB... you don't even understand this quote.... you are saying that we should NOT SPEAK UP against the nazis because they have the right to have their freedom of speech.... i doubt Martin Niemoller would agree with your shitty logic of tolerating nazi freedom of speech

    As for anarchism not being compatible with peoples not believing in freedom of expression for their ennemies, then i remember you that :

    - in spanish revolution there was no freedom of speech for franquist propaganda, there were no fascist journals and no freedom of expression for their ennemies. Both the CNT and the POUM agreed with that.

    - The ukrainian makhnovtchina did not give the right to the white armies to spread their propaganda in their anarchist society. Neither did they tolerate bolchevik propaganda.

    - in the zapatist communes of Chiapas in Mexico, there is no freedom of speech for the lies spread by the mexico state. Even zapata himself did not tolerate that.

    - in the anarchist commune of kronsdadt, there were no freedom of speech for trotskist of stalinist propaganda, and of course they did not tolerate fascist propaganda.

    - in second world war, the anarchist resistants against the nazis never tolerated nazi propaganda and they never gave freedom of speech for their ennemies.

    - the Commune of Paris never tolerated government propaganda and freedom of speech.

    So in conclusion, i defy you to find ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of anarchism in action

    you're really funny.... your theories might sound cool to you, but think about how you would apply them because you CAN'T

    NGNM "See, you keep doing this. It isn’t neo-Nazi’s freedom of speech (I actually haven’t seen any proof Faurisson is actually a neo-Nazi.) it’s EVERYBODY’s freedom of speech. You don’t get to compartmentalize it like that, his politics are irrelevant."


    UNGOV "Start by fighting for the freedom of speech of your comrades before caring about your ENNEMIES. Why the fuck would you support the freedom of speech for ideas you are against ???

    And yes, faurisson is a right-wing asshole, he defends the nazi genocide what the fuck do you think he is ??? what side do you think he's on ??"

    NGNM " The right to express ideas freely without fear of persecution is a fundamental human right and a key litmus test of a democratic and open society. It is also the bedrock on which all other rights are predicated. "


    The key to a democratic and open society is also to not tolerate the LIARS and peoples who do DISINFORMATION by saying something that 99% of the world population knows it is false because there are evidences everywhere. Denying the holocaust is not freedom of speech, it is disinformation.

    If you think negationism is freedom of speech then you probably also think peoples who lied about Irak having Mass destruction weapons is also freedom of speech and not disinformation."

    NGNM "Criminalizing speech is fascist, authoritarian, and tantamount to burning books, which is just another means of shutting down free speech. This is the death knell for individual rights. Therefore, Anarchists should oppose it."


    Woohoo, the stupid words used in wrong circumstances again. Another godwin point for you.

    I already explained that ALL EXAMPLES OF ANARCHISM IN ACTION denied the freedom of speech for their ennemies. So you are saying the whole history of anarchism is fascist and authoritarian.

    The spanish revolution, the zapatistas, the makhnovtchina, the kronsdadt sailors, the commune of paris and all other anarchists were all fascists and authoritarians :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

    NGNM "Second, Anarchists should oppose it out of hand because historically Anarchists have been the victims of such crusades. Like Thomas Paine, who was nearly executed once the new order was established and decided revolutionaries were no longer desirable.


    UNGOV "And what if i say that this event never existed and i deny its existence ? You would consider that freedom of speech or disinformation?


    Once again, I'd like to address every single qualm about Chomsky, but it's so off-topic that I'll just say this: neo-nazis can say WHATEVER the hell the want. But guess what? So can I. If they're going to spread misinformation, the for fuck's sake, I'm going to do the exact OPPOSITE and spread information.


    UNGOV " yeah let them say what they want until they convert enough peoples with their propaganda and disinformation to kill YOUR freedom of speech."

    So he frequently calls NGNM an idiot, misquotes him several times, accuses him of all sorts of bullshit and justifies it all on wierd interpretations of historical examples. This goes on for 12 pages, during which time he also repeatedly accuses NGNM of not possibly being involved in any real anarchy or direct action.

    But like I said if you can find examples of lying I am happy to accept them and call out the perpetrators, regardless of which "Side" they are on.
     
  18. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    Yes you did. Yes you are a liar. I explained everything in my last post, but you ignored it again like a fascist. You put thing in my mouth, you pretend i have said things i never said and you deform my words. This is disinformation, you are acting like the government and the mass medias. LIAR !


    The original lyrics are in german. This band has been around since many years and the whole anti-fascist scene respect them so i doubt they are sexist and homophobic

    This band has participated to the most famous antifa festivals, did gigs with the most famous antifa and anarchist bands, they definatly have their place here.

    Is it the first time you hear about loikaemie or what?
     
  19. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    YOU are the one who are putting words in my mouth, YOU are lying.

    Prove me where i said i agree to execute or emprisonner those who don't believe with me, prove it with quotes or shut up and stop lying.


    i already explained where are the lies in my last post, LEARN TO READ GODDAMNIT




    btw, it's nice to see that you are calling me a poohead and then you wonder why i insult you back. And this time again i'm sure the hypocrites like Anarchofem will not say anything. They critize me but they don't critize the others who are insulting first.






    copy/paste since you are too stupid to read:



    LIES LIES LIES again...

    i never said that you are LYING. I said that HATE propaganda that is a threat to others freedom shouldnt be tolerated, not ". This concerns only fascism, and nazism, this kind of bullshit should never be tolerated INSIDE ANARCHIST COMMUNITIES. And anyway, like i said, the material would still be available through internet because anarchists doesnt censor internet

    I NEVER SAID THAT, I NEVER TALKED ABOUT IMPRISONNING PEOPLES OR EXECUTING THEM

    YOU ARE A LIAR AND A FASCIST

    PROVE ME WHEE I SAID THAT OR SHUT THE FUCK UP, LIAR FASCIST

    fuck you and your disinformation, LIAR

    wowwww this is RI-DI-CU-LOUS

    you base your argument of calling of a fascist on like 1% of the definition of fascism

    fascism is a regime, fascism is about a minority having the control over a majority.

    i said it many time in this topic and i will repeat it again, in big capital letters so a fucking retard like you might understand it easier:

    I BELIEVE IN DIRECT DEMOCRACY, THE ANARCHIST COMMUNITIES SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT TO CENSOR THE FASCISTS OR NOT. THIS IS NOT FASCISM THIS IS DIRECT DEMOCRACY, CALL IT THE DICTATORSHIP OF THE TOTALITY OF THE PEOPLES IF YOU WANT, BUT THATS NOT FASCISM, THATS NOT AUTHORITARISM, THATS NOT STALINISM. THIS IS AUTO MANAGEMENT, SELF ORGANIZATION, AND ANARCHISM.

    If you are against a collective decision decided by the totality of a community, then YOU ARE THE FASCIST YOU ARE THE STALINIST who oppose to the WILL OF THE PEOPLES, THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY.
     
  20. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,422

    117

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male
    Canada  Canada
    Ok then when i call you a dumbass, i'm also referring to the action, not the individuals :)

    see how stupid it sounds ?
     
Loading...